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April 13, 2006

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[00:43:40] <rapha> Hi all!
[00:44:09] * cmlenz has joined #trac
[00:51:30] <rapha> I've searched but couldn't find out where to edit the default Trac page listing all Tracs in a directory. Can somebody help me out there?
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[00:57:54] <cboos> hi
[00:58:01] <alect> hi there
[00:59:14] <cboos> I'd like to check what others think about the little wiki feature proposed in #2877 (put space between words of wiki page names)
[00:59:43] <cboos> It's a small addition, configurable, and IMHO really improves readability of wikis
[01:00:07] <cboos> (+ will quiet a bit the CamelCase bashers...)
[01:04:22] <cboos> e.g. see how it looks like on Wacko Wiki http://wackowiki.com/WackoDocumentation?v=18n2
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[01:06:02] <zond> hey there #trac. i have a question: is there a neater way of automatically generating bugs in trac (from for example email) than doing a post to the newticket page?
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[01:08:09] <cboos> the xmlrpcplugin should does that
[01:08:34] <cboos> http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/XmlRpcPlugin + authenticate and then check the API link
[01:09:13] <rapha> cboos: do you maybe know where to edit the list-of-tracs page?
[01:09:27] <cboos> list-of-tracs?
[01:09:32] <cboos> ah the index?
[01:09:45] <cboos> well, I think there's a template for that now
[01:10:02] <cboos> yep, it's templates/index.cs
[01:11:09] <cboos> so, back to my question about #2877, nobody is against it? cmlenz, what about you?
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[01:11:39] <cmlenz> yeah
[01:11:59] <cboos> 'yeah' against or 'yeah' ok ? :)
[01:12:05] <cmlenz> that only splits up the name in links, or what?
[01:12:19] <cboos> yes, when rendering the default label
[01:12:25] <cmlenz> what about the page name in the timeline, in search, etc?
[01:12:32] <cboos> everywhere...
[01:12:41] <cboos> (when rendering that is)
[01:12:50] <cmlenz> the patch doesn't do that, does it?
[01:13:08] <cmlenz> (not talking about wikitext, but the other occurrences)
[01:13:41] <cboos> hm, I'm afraid I don't understand...
[01:13:58] <cmlenz> the timeline has the page name in the event title, for example, right?
[01:14:03] <Eridius> d'oh, custom query just failed me
[01:14:15] <Eridius> I wanted to check if summary contained "a" AND "b"
[01:14:16] <cboos> ah, yes
[01:14:18] <Eridius> but it only lets me do OR
[01:14:49] <cboos> Eridius: there's already a ticket about that, search for "AND/OR queries"
[01:14:51] <cmlenz> Eridius: yeah, that's a limitation of queries
[01:15:18] <cmlenz> cboos: same with search results, TitleIndex, etc... should the name be split up there too?
[01:15:24] <cmlenz> plus the html title on wiki pages
[01:15:28] <Eridius> whee, a contains query works with %. I would have expected either do a string match or drop the SQL-style match (i.e. turn * into %)
[01:16:01] <cmlenz> it does?
[01:16:03] <cboos> cmlenz: right, whenever we don't go through the Wiki IWikiSyntaxProvider, this won't apply (currently)
[01:16:19] <Eridius> cmlenz: yeah. I just searched for Summary contains "a%b" and it worked
[01:17:17] <cboos> cmlenz: but I could add this for consistency, of course
[01:19:31] <cmlenz> well, if we do it for links, we should do it everywhere... otherwise it's a mess IMO
[01:19:41] <cboos> cmlenz: on the other hand, at some point we should still show the real "identity" of a page somewhere, i.e. to be able to distinguish between "WikiPage" expanded and some real "Wiki Page" (i.e. a page containing space)
[01:21:13] <cboos> that's a rare case and I suppose that if the #2877 feature becomes available, such page with embedded space characters will become even less used
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[01:21:48] <Eridius> ack
[01:22:28] <cboos> so maybe we should keep the exact pagename at least in the <TITLE>, or do you see another place?
[01:22:37] <cmlenz> cboos: that's an edge case... you can always see the real page name in the URL
[01:23:30] <rapha> cboos: thanks!
[01:23:59] <cboos> so ok, I'll extend that patch on #2877
[01:26:56] <rapha> Hmm
[01:27:21] <rapha> cboos: what version are you using? I just upgraded from 0.9.3 to 0.9.4, but /usr/share/trac/templates doesn't hold an index.cs...
[01:27:45] <cboos> hm, yes that must be in 0.10 only... sorry !
[01:27:58] <cboos> time to upgrade :)
[01:28:12] <alect> heh
[01:28:41] <rapha> 0.*10*??
[01:29:01] <alect> cmlenz: i put all those ticket patches into #3029
[01:29:01] * rapha can't find any such thing on http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/TracDownload
[01:29:29] <cmlenz> alect: yeah, thanks a lot
[01:29:52] <cmlenz> although I think we'll go without the adjunct listener... that's for components, milestones, etc, right?
[01:30:05] <alect> yeah, i just threw it in for completeness
[01:30:14] <alect> i didn't think you'd want to apply it
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[01:30:37] <cmlenz> otherwise, looks cool
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[01:32:18] <cmlenz> weird docstring style, though ;-) where'd you get that from?
[01:32:46] <alect> C++ days
[01:33:14] <alect> /** ...
[01:33:23] <alect> and align under the ellipses
[01:33:40] * alect is glad his c++ days are behind him
[01:34:41] <cmlenz> hehe
[01:35:03] <cmlenz> me too
[01:35:42] <Semhirage> awww come on, c++ isn't that bad
[01:36:57] <cmlenz> for the two people in the world who actually really understand it, it probably rocks ;-)
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[01:40:49] <rapha> So what about this ominous 0.10?
[01:41:03] <cmlenz> alect: I think it's weird that both new/ticketmodule components provide the manipulator extension point
[01:41:06] <alect> it's in svn
[01:41:13] <cmlenz> ... maybe move it to TicketSystem for now?
[01:41:21] <cmlenz> or have it only on TicketModule?
[01:41:38] <cmlenz> OTOH, it probably doesn't cause any harm
[01:42:38] <alect> yeah
[01:43:10] <alect> it's all cleand up in workflow of course, with the unificaiton
[01:43:25] <cmlenz> right
[01:45:20] <alect> so you coalesced all of the .py plugins under "plugins" in webadmin?
[01:46:39] <cmlenz> erm, I did?
[01:46:45] <cmlenz> I didn't think so :-P
[01:46:49] <alect> seem to :)
[01:46:53] <cmlenz> they should show up with there module name
[01:46:59] <alect> mmaybe i need to update..
[01:47:00] <cmlenz> but I didn't test with more than one
[01:47:46] <alect> aha
[01:47:48] <alect> update
[01:47:51] <alect> i'm surprised it worked at all
[01:47:57] <alect> magical
[01:48:38] <cmlenz> heh
[01:49:14] <cmlenz> I've added a base class shared by NewticketModule and TicketModule to hold the ticket_manipulators extension point, and the validate_ticket method
[01:49:18] <cmlenz> seems a bit nicer
[01:49:39] <alect> good idea
[01:55:34] <rapha> Help! No matter where I look, there doesn't seem to be a 0.10 release ANYWHERE? So how do I edit that index page?
[01:55:44] <cmlenz> alect: I was wondering about IWikiPageManipulator... could that be used for example to add the "Tag under" field of TracTags?
[01:55:57] <cmlenz> rapha: there is no such release, it's in the works
[01:56:23] <cmlenz> rapha: the current svn trunk will one (sunny) day become 0.10
[01:57:20] <alect> cmlenz: probably yeah, using some kind of markup in the page you mean?
[01:57:44] <alect> having it done in a form field is nice though
[01:57:59] <cmlenz> similar to ticket custom fields, I was thinking
[01:58:08] <alect> ah
[01:58:21] <cmlenz> i.e. in prepare_wiki_page(), the manipulator would actually add a field for the tags
[01:58:24] <rapha> cmlenz: Okay, I see. So if the templates/index.cs file isn't yet present in 0.94, how do I edit that page?
[01:58:44] <cmlenz> you just create it yourself
[01:59:03] <alect> definitely, if such a beast existed it would be useful
[01:59:40] <alect> although isn't kid going to let plugins have more control over rendering, for such situations?
[01:59:47] <alect> "kid"
[01:59:56] <cmlenz> hehe
[01:59:57] <cmlenz> yeah
[02:00:06] <cmlenz> but that's not without overhead
[02:00:41] <alect> hmm true, it was a tree filter or something like that
[02:01:32] <cmlenz> also, if multiple plugins add controls to wiki pages, we might want to exercise some control on how the are layed out... again similar to ticket custom fields
[02:01:48] <alect> yes, agreed
[02:02:16] <alect> perhaps i could refactor ticket.field to be more generic
[02:03:02] <rapha> cmlenz: Looking at wiki.cs, there seem to be a whole lot of <?cs ... ?> tags that can be used in *.cs files... and when I put an index.cs into my templates directory, how would Trac know that it should use that? Is this stuff documented anywhere?
[02:05:16] <cmlenz> http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/TracInterfaceCustomization#ProjectList
[02:05:45] <rapha> Thanks a lot!
[02:06:11] <cmlenz> alect: long-term, of course... but I'm inclined to add a "future-proof" prepare_wiki_page(req, page, fields) to the IWikiPageManipulator
[02:06:26] <alect> for 0.10?
[02:06:27] <alect> awesome
[02:06:37] <alect> and fields would just be html fragments?
[02:07:16] <cmlenz> well, the prepare_ticket() method isn't actually called anywhere, so I was thinking to do the same cheap trick for prepare_wiki_page() :-P
[02:07:31] <cmlenz> but maybe adding calls to prepare_ticket() wouldn't be so hard?
[02:07:33] <alect> hehe
[02:07:56] <cmlenz> no, that'd require trac.ticket.field stuff, of course
[02:07:58] <cmlenz> hmm
[02:08:00] <alect> not hard no, but not future compatibile
[02:08:02] <alect> yeah
[02:08:28] <alect> having it a nop should be enough for now no?
[02:10:23] <alect> i'm redoing my home page using trac: http://projects.swapoff.org/swapoff/wiki
[02:10:32] <alect> away from moinmoin
[02:11:08] <cmlenz> yeah, I'll make it a noop
[02:11:16] <alect> having the kid-style tree filters would let me do that entirely as a plugin, rather than having to hack the templates
[02:11:19] * alect is keen!
[02:11:22] <cmlenz> neat :-)
[02:11:25] <alect> kid! kid! kid!
[02:12:08] <cmlenz> I should start a branch for the template stuff sometime soon
[02:12:16] <s0undt3ch> alect: Error: Failed to load processor Include
[02:12:18] <s0undt3ch> :)
[02:12:30] <s0undt3ch> in http://projects.swapoff.org/swapoff/wiki/DevTodo
[02:12:44] <alect> yeah :) i have yet to migrate some of the moinmoin plugins
[02:12:46] <rapha> Are you guys all Edgewall coworkers?
[02:13:01] <alect> nope
[02:13:14] <rapha> Kay
[02:13:15] <alect> jborg, who sometimes comes in here, is an edgewall guy
[02:13:53] <rapha> I see... do you think they can be talked to in regard to implementing features first for pay?
[02:14:15] <alect> i'm not sure, they don't really do much trac development anymore
[02:14:29] <alect> what sort of features?
[02:15:30] <rapha> Not sure... Trac as it stands is a _pretty_ cool thing (for a single project, it plain ROCKS), but using it in a company with virtually hundreds of projects is a bit challenging.
[02:16:20] <rapha> I've been reading the discussion on the Wiki regarding handling multiple projects, but a way of replicating an existing installation without its data would already help a lot.
[02:17:22] <alect> you could check out drproject
[02:17:28] <rapha> (Like, give trac-admin a list of projects that a given installation will have to handle and then have some sort of template for reports and make one of these reports for each project and also add a custom field with a list of these projects)
[02:17:34] <rapha> drproject... never heard of it.
[02:17:38] * rapha looks at fm
[02:17:44] <alect> g00gl3 it
[02:18:04] <rapha> kay
[02:19:02] <rapha> That looks cool.
[02:23:02] <alect> the more i think about being able to provide extra wiki fields, the more i like that idea :)
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[02:26:47] <cmlenz> yeah
[02:27:28] <alect> the tags listing could be inserted as a "field" too
[02:29:32] <alect> is req.authname != 'anonymous' the best way to check the user is authenticated?
[02:38:25] <cmlenz> I prefer "req.authname and req.authname != 'anonymous'"
[02:38:40] <alect> ok
[02:45:52] <rapha> I can't get it to include an external stylesheet that is under trac/htdocs/css/index.css...
[02:46:23] <rapha> Trac itself includes /chrome/common/... but from the index template that doesn't seem to work.
[02:53:08] <cboos> rapha: the index.cs is a bit special: there's no Trac environment associated to it, hence the limited capabilities...
[02:55:43] <rapha> cboos: I'd be fine with being able to relatively link to any stylesheet on the server. Right now, only absolute links (http://.../...) work.
[02:58:21] <cmlenz> just use /path/on/my/server
[02:59:10] <rapha> Hmmm... maybe I need to fiddle around with the VHost setup some more for that to work.
[02:59:13] <rapha> Thanks anyway :-)
[03:06:00] <alect> is Ticket.select missing due to performance reasons?
[03:06:14] <alect> and WikiPage.select
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[03:36:48] <cmlenz> not really, probably just missing because we didn't need it as of yet
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[03:51:14] <alect> ooh, it would be nice to be able to add controls to the wiki page "view" as well as when editing
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[03:57:50] <cmlenz> how would those be submitted?
[03:58:31] <alect> that is a reasonable question
[03:58:36] <alect> magic!
[03:58:58] <cmlenz> heh
[03:59:01] <cmlenz> ajax!
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[03:59:11] <alect> yes! web 2.0!
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[03:59:25] <cmlenz> in validate_ticket, how do you suggest detecting whether the ticket is new?
[03:59:35] <cmlenz> ah, exists, I gues
[03:59:54] <alect> that's how i've been doing it yeah
[03:59:59] <alect> you writing a spam plugin?
[03:59:59] <cmlenz> yeah, that works
[04:00:09] <cmlenz> I'm migrating matt's stuff
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[04:12:01] <alect> [athomas@blink:~]python2.5 -V
[04:12:01] <alect> Python 2.5a1
[04:12:04] <alect> whoooo
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[06:15:44] <alect> hey muness
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[06:21:48] <cboos> Q: is there a way to know, from inside an unit test, what kind of TestRunner is used?
[06:26:29] <cmlenz> Q back: why?
[06:27:05] <cboos> I'd like to reformat the msg given by the AssertionError, in a way readable on the console
[06:27:38] <cboos> but I guess this reformatting would break other runners (unless they don't parse the AssertionError, but do it differently...)
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[06:29:16] <cboos> (btw, I'm in the middle of moving everything around, so I hope you're not working on other parts of the wiki tests right now :) )
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[06:29:48] <cboos> (besides r3152, which is OK of course)
[06:30:37] <alect> heh: # An administrator is allowed to spam
[06:31:17] <cmlenz> cboos: how would you make it more readable except for using linebreaks?
[06:32:09] <cboos> using line breaks but also make both of the text start on the same col, so the diff is easy to grasp
[06:32:29] <cmlenz> I don't see how that would break other test runners
[06:32:46] <cboos> well, ok then
[06:32:48] <alect> what would be mighty useful is if assertEqual() did some kind of introspection of the types, and displayed the differences usefully
[06:33:09] <alect> when you have two ticket fields with 20 attributes each, finding the differences is quite annoying
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[07:06:41] <muness> alect: hi
[07:07:17] <alect> hey
[07:07:56] <muness> I noticed the checkins. Time for a release?
[07:08:44] <alect> there's a bug with tags with hyphens or plus symbols in them...
[07:08:54] <alect> but it's actually a bit tricky
[07:09:21] <alect> because it can be a valid link if expression_space=false
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[07:09:48] <muness> oh, yeah.
[07:09:54] <muness> makes sense.
[07:09:58] <alect> yeah :\
[07:10:02] <alect> so...i dunno
[07:10:18] <muness> I'd say unless there is a really good reason, just say no hyphens, plus symbols or commas in tags.
[07:10:48] <alect> there is one reason...when you use the reporter or cc ticket fields, they can have email addresses in them :\
[07:10:59] <muness> ugh.
[07:11:11] <muness> and those can have both hyphens and plus symbols.
[07:11:21] <alect> so stuff like the address here: http://trac-hacks.org/tags/alexander.klimetschek%40hpi.uni-potsdam.de
[07:11:31] <muness> maybe use a different symbols in the expression language?
[07:11:33] <alect> that's not showing anything because of the hyphen :(
[07:11:57] <muness> (I am not fond of that suggestions, but it'd save us grief)
[07:12:16] <alect> you can quote the tags and it works: http://trac-hacks.org/tags/'alexander.klimetschek%40hpi.uni-potsdam.de'
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[07:12:30] <alect> but of course, quoting them then doesn't work when expression_space=false
[07:12:32] <alect> can't win!!!
[07:12:49] <muness> why does quoting them not work when expression_space=false?
[07:13:03] <muness> (btw, why isn't that just expression=false?)
[07:13:35] <alect> yeah dunno why it isn't :)
[07:13:42] <alect> seemed like a good idea at the time
[07:14:15] <alect> it doesn't work because it doesn't have code to deal with quoting...it just grabs everything after the /tags/ prefix
[07:14:39] <muness> We can change the re to handle quoting.
[07:14:46] <muness> make it more consistent.
[07:15:00] <alect> going forward i'd like to exclusively use expressions
[07:15:15] <alect> much more powerful, and it will make the codebase claner
[07:15:20] <muness> true.
[07:15:27] <alect> yeah maybe that's the way forward
[07:15:30] <alect> handle quoting
[07:15:35] * alect hmsmmms
[07:16:08] <muness> what sort of things would break if we stick with only expressions right now, make commas the same as plus symbols in the expression language.
[07:16:10] <muness> ?
[07:16:29] <muness> the expression language then becomes a superset of the old language, right?
[07:16:51] <alect> that is actually the case (re. commas)
[07:17:05] <alect> yeah
[07:17:11] <muness> so, why not drop the other parsing. expressions rule!
[07:17:41] <alect> only slight problem seems to be that IWikiSyntaxProvider seems to steal the quotes
[07:17:54] <alect> eg. tag:'foo@bar.com'+closed
[07:17:59] <alect> it only grabs up to the +
[07:18:09] <muness> that sucks.
[07:18:13] <muness> sounds like a bug to me.
[07:18:29] * cboos jumps in the conversation
[07:18:33] <alect> heh
[07:18:36] <alect> hi
[07:18:47] <cboos> yes this sounds like a bug...
[07:18:50] <alect> i assume it's for quoting links with spaces in them
[07:19:06] <cboos> what is expected is that there is a space after the '...'
[07:19:33] <cboos> ah, wait, you're talking about the short form...
[07:19:41] <cboos> outside of [], right?
[07:19:48] <alect> yep
[07:19:55] <cboos> ok, then it's a feature :)
[07:20:00] <muness> how?
[07:20:15] <alect> hehehe
[07:20:32] <cboos> I mean it's the expected behavior so far, but of course we can change that...
[07:21:29] <cboos> but what are you trying to achieve here, give 'foo@bar.com'+closed as a target?
[07:21:37] <muness> yes
[07:21:39] <cboos> If so, simply use tag:"'foo@bar.com'+closed"
[07:21:54] <cboos> should work ;)
[07:22:08] <alect> i tried that
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[07:23:01] <alect> it ends up with: http://localhost:8080/devel/tags/%27%27asmodai%40in-nomine.org%27%2Bclosed%27
[07:23:09] <alect> which is: ''asmodai@in-nomine.org'+closed'
[07:23:19] <alect> ie. not that helpful :)
[07:23:49] <alect> however, i think i can get around this by using get_wiki_syntax() no?
[07:23:57] <alect> provide my own parser
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[07:25:08] <alect> alright, so...make expressions the default
[07:25:19] <alect> and roll our own wiki syntax doohicky
[07:25:28] <cboos> alect: I'll check what tag:"'foo@bar.com'+closed" does...
[07:26:32] <alect> ok
[07:26:58] <alect> i'm looking forward to your unicode guide christian
[07:27:17] <alect> i must admit to being unsure of where and how to apply unicode magic
[07:27:26] <muness> sounds great. except make the expressions the only way to parse. Any reason for others?
[07:28:00] <muness> i.e. the old way of parsing isn't needed, right?
[07:28:10] <alect> agreed
[07:28:21] <muness> Let's call it 0.4 then.
[07:28:27] <muness> ?
[07:28:29] <cboos> well, using the above tag: expression in a wiki link resolver callback (i.e. the one given in get_link_resovers), you would get the following string: "\'foo@bar.com\'+closed" for the target
[07:29:08] <cboos> ... and from there you certainly can make an usable link out of it ...
[07:29:13] <alect> hmm, so why does this: tag:"'asmodai@in-nomine.org'+closed"
[07:29:27] <alect> yield this: http://localhost:8080/devel/tags/%27%27asmodai%40in-nomine.org%27%2Bclosed%27
[07:29:41] <alect> ie. ''asmodai@in-nomine.org'+closed'
[07:29:49] <alect> there is strangeness afoot
[07:30:36] <alect> also muness, i thought tag:/ could refer to the index
[07:30:58] <alect> i considered tag:index, but people might want to use index as a tag
[07:31:03] <muness> yeah.
[07:31:24] <muness> we already use . as a special character, so adding / is fine by me.
[07:31:41] <alect> okay, so 0.4 you think
[07:31:47] <muness> tag: bugs me a little doesn't seem intuitive.
[07:31:49] <alect> and then do a branch for the api changes?
[07:31:59] <muness> Yes.
[07:32:13] <alect> excellent
[07:32:18] <muness> tagged: ?
[07:32:29] <muness> findtags: ?
[07:32:47] <muness> (we can keep tag: , just add another that's more intuitive)
[07:33:23] <alect> i like tagged:
[07:33:34] <alect> tagged:athomas+closed
[07:34:00] <muness> yeah, you can just read that.
[07:34:05] * jerome has left #trac
[07:34:22] <alect> tag: sounds too much like a verb
[07:34:30] <muness> it confused me at first.
[07:34:40] <muness> I thought it was like the TagIt macro.
[07:34:48] <alect> yeah i recall that :)
[07:34:52] * alect smacks himself around
[07:35:01] <muness> I like having a verb that can be used to tag things.
[07:35:23] <muness> but I don't know if we can do that now.
[07:35:29] <muness> or should.
[07:35:37] <muness> might confuse too many people.
[07:35:47] <alect> how would that work?
[07:35:55] <muness> I like it because I like the idea of a wiki syntax as a dsl.
[07:35:57] <alect> what with the tag field
[07:36:08] <muness> Exactly.
[07:36:14] <muness> It'd be too confusing.
[07:36:26] <muness> Which would be the authority (maybe just accumulate them?)
[07:36:30] <alect> true
[07:36:46] <alect> i always found the TagIt macro kind of crufty..
[07:36:52] <alect> just felt too error prone i guess
[07:36:57] <muness> It is.
[07:37:00] <alect> hehe
[07:37:22] <muness> But I liked being able to clone a wiki via copy/paste.
[07:37:28] <cboos> however, using a "link" resolver for that is a bit cumbersome too...
[07:38:00] <cboos> e.g. in TracMercurial, tag: would like to a specific tagged changeset... like tag:tip or tag:0.8
[07:38:02] <muness> no worries - I don't miss TagIt much.
[07:38:37] <alect> any suggestions cboos?