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July 29, 2006

[00:07:19] <coderanger> Yep
[00:07:58] <coderanger> Where the path to site-packages is (I think) compiled in to Python at build time
[00:09:18] <coderanger> okay, time to sleep
[00:09:41] <tharvey> thanks for your help... I'm almost there it seem :)
[00:10:31] <tharvey> trac seems like it has a very nice modular design... I think it would measure quite well against other 'wiki only' engines
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[00:52:06] <tharvey> pacopablo, you around? I'm trying to figure out your TracBlog plugin. I think that perhaps I'm not understanding tags or something. When using [[BlogShow()]] I get 'No such tagspace 'wiki' '
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[01:59:04] <Guardian> morning
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[04:41:04] <ddfreyne> It's likely been asked before, but... is there an ETA for 0.10?
[04:41:30] <ddfreyne> The roadmap progress bar seems pretty much filled... soon? ;)
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[04:52:42] <pygi> hello
[04:52:51] <pygi> how can I set default ticket owner in trac 0.9.4?
[04:53:28] <LarstiQ> hmm, good question.
[05:00:16] <pygi> LarstiQ, indeed =P
[05:00:31] <pygi> perhaps I could add an entry under [tickets] in trac.ini?
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[05:08:59] <pygi> LarstiQ, seems such a feature was added in 8.x, but doesn't exist in 9.x series?
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[05:12:13] <Guard][an> hello
[05:12:42] <Guard][an> with trac 0.9.x + , appart from using headings, is there another way to define anchors inside a wiki page ?
[05:14:52] <Guard][an> hmm track-hacks.org just blew up
[05:15:01] <Guard][an> while i was previewing a comment
[05:15:05] <pygi> LarstiQ, oki, solved, my solution worked
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[08:21:21] <exarkun> if I delete rows from the wiki table, is that like deleting revisions via the web admin interface?
[08:21:29] <exarkun> or is there something else that has to be updated?
[08:28:54] <jborg> that should be enough
[08:29:48] <jborg> unless the page has attached files
[08:30:20] <jborg> So if you can, please use the python api
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[08:32:54] <exarkun> is there a python api as convenient as "delete from wiki where author = name"?
[08:34:11] <exarkun> ie, something like db.delete(WikiPage, WikiPage.author == name) would be nice
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[08:46:48] <jborg> exarkun, no, the current api doesn't support any "bulk" operations, you can only delete one page at a time.
[08:46:52] <jborg> exarkun, http://trac.edgewall.org/browser/trunk/trac/wiki/model.py
[08:49:18] <exarkun> Okay, I'll probably stick to using SQL directly then.
[08:49:23] <exarkun> Thanks.
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[09:12:03] <tuxipuxi> exarkun: what about an ORM like sqlobject?
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[10:28:20] <exarkun> tuxipuxi: inasmuch as it would be a python api instead of directly stabbing sql in the brain, it would be an improvement, I suppose
[10:28:28] <exarkun> tuxipuxi: although I don't think very highly of sqlobject in particular
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[11:07:47] <tuxipuxi> exarkun: you don't? why?
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[11:19:28] <exarkun> too inefficient, inconsistent incomplete apis, it enforces a bad programming model with its weird connection handling, other stuff along those lines
[11:19:42] <exarkun> oh yea, no real transaction support
[11:42:07] <moisei> I would like to have a code review ticket created for each commit into my repo. - anybody has an idea on now to do it?
[11:45:02] * moisei slaps moisei around a bit with a large trout
[11:48:41] <De_mon> moisei a commit hook most likely
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[12:43:09] <tuxipuxi> exarkun: ah, i see
[12:47:44] <coderanger> There is currently ORM integration being worked on
[12:47:49] <coderanger> UsingSQLAlchemy
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[17:53:55] * alec-fly is now known as alect
[18:07:42] <coderanger> alect: Back home?
[18:17:54] <alect> yes indeed :)(
[18:17:58] <alect> it is good to be back
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[19:38:40] <coderanger> alect: Missing the Cali weather yet? ;-)
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[19:39:39] <alect> hell no
[19:39:48] <alect> it was hot as anything over there
[19:39:50] <alect> 40C+
[19:39:58] <coderanger> yeah
[19:40:39] <coderanger> https on trac-hacks is still down it seems
[19:41:11] <alect> yep
[19:46:04] <alect> apache2.2 pain
[19:47:15] <alect> trac-hacks gets a lot of traffic now
[19:47:32] <alect> i'll have to start thinking about how to organise the front page in a less verbose way
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[21:19:10] <coderanger> alect: Did you just upgrade trac-hacks?
[21:19:53] <alect> yes
[21:19:56] <alect> why?
[21:20:07] <alect> issues?
[21:20:20] <coderanger> Tickets look really weird in Camino
[21:20:39] <alect> shift-reload
[21:20:53] <alect> actually the ticket body is now white
[21:20:55] <alect> that's odd
[21:21:09] <coderanger> yeah
[21:21:30] <coderanger> firefox too
[21:24:36] <alect> ugly as hell
[21:28:42] <coderanger> camino also renders the buttons Cocoaishly
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[22:14:02] <jacobss> Hi, our company is trying to switch from BugZ
[22:14:51] <jacobss> We've got 30 or so active products, so we're trying to figure out if they should all be seperate trac projects, or if we should put them all in one project
[22:15:22] <jacobss> the issue is that we want developers (who work on multiple projects) to get reports of all active bugs (in different projects) in one place
[22:15:36] <jacobss> But we also need clients to be able to access only their particular project
[22:15:46] <jacobss> any advice?
[22:31:19] <coderanger> Thats one of the places Trac doesn't yet excel in
[22:31:38] <coderanger> There is work being done on exactly what you want, but its still somewhat experimental
[22:33:15] <coderanger> The part you need does work in my tests, but I can't promise it won't do bad things under heavy load :-/
[22:35:44] <jacobss> unfortunately it's pretty high load production environment
[22:35:55] <jacobss> I guess with the finegrainedperms it could work, yes?
[22:36:04] <coderanger> That doesn't apply to tickets yet
[22:36:07] <jacobss> it's just a bit of a pain in the rear for setup
[22:36:10] <jacobss> oh...
[22:36:47] <coderanger> There is a sandbox with an enhanced permission system that would make it possible, but they are waiting until after 0.10 to merge it into trunk
[22:37:20] <jacobss> Any idea when?
[22:37:54] <coderanger> Probably another month for it to hit the main trunk, and another 10-12 months for it to be in a release
[22:39:21] <coderanger> TracForge "should" work fine, I just haven't tested it under severe load (i.e. over 1 request/second)
[22:40:42] <jacobss> hmm... so short of bleeding edge, the only way to manage it is to use URL based http perms?
[22:40:45] <coderanger> mostly because I would need to build some kind of distributed testing system for that
[22:40:58] <jacobss> If we go the bleeding edge route, are most pluggins going to be BC?
[22:41:26] <coderanger> Yes, the security branch is based on the current trunk, and many plugins have a 0.10 version if needed
[22:41:39] <coderanger> Most of us who work with Trac a lot moved to trunk a while ago
[22:41:44] <jacobss> thanks for the help, I'll let you know how it turns out
[22:42:15] <coderanger> Take a look at trac-hacks every now and then and maybe TracForge will be workable
[22:44:37] <tharvey> anyone familiar with TracTags or tBlog? I'm not getting tBlog to work right and I think I'm not understanding tags or something. When I use 'BlogShow' I get 'No such tagspace 'wiki''
[22:49:08] <coderanger> I think thats an upgrade issue
[22:49:18] <coderanger> alect: STRT
[22:49:57] <tharvey> my tagspace issue?
[22:50:09] <moisei> I would like to have a code review ticket created for each commit into my repo. - anybody has an idea on now to do it?
[22:53:11] <coderanger> moisei: Make a post-commit-hook
[22:53:21] <coderanger> tharvey: Yeah
[22:53:43] <coderanger> tharvey: Alec would know more than I, he wrote a lot of the tags stuff
[22:55:03] <tharvey> ok. I did upgrade from 0.9.4 to latest svn last night but I didn't install TracTags or tBlog until after the upgrade
[22:55:28] <coderanger> tharvey: Try doing a trac-admin /path/to/env upgrade
[22:56:10] <tharvey> I did have to do an upgrade of my env when I moved from 0.9.4, I'll try it again however
[22:56:54] <coderanger> If you didn't have the plugins installed at that time it wouldnt have run their upgrade code
[22:58:38] <tharvey> I got a warning: /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac/loader.py:96: UserWarning: Module tBlog was already imported from /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/tBlog-0.2-py2.4.egg/tBlog/__init__.pyc, but /usr/share/trac/plugins/tBlog-0.2-py2.4.egg is being added to sys.path
[22:58:38] <tharvey> egg.activate()
[22:58:57] <coderanger> sounds like you have the plugin installed twice
[22:59:25] <tharvey> ah, ok I understand the msg now... not sure how it got into site-packages, let me fix that
[23:00:48] <tharvey> I was trying to learn how to install plugins last night and I was coming across several methods of installation including 'easy-install' which apparently puts them in site-pacakges, then there is the 'python setup.py install' if you have the plugin source, but its not clear where that would install either. I prefer to build the egg (or download if I can) and manually put it where I want it
[23:00:48] <moisei> coderanger - the hook is not trivial. i am wondering whether one already prepared such a one. it should analyse the diff and fill the ticket accordingly with a lines number and file names
[23:01:18] <coderanger> moisei: That sounds very specific, so if its not up on trac-hacks I doubt someone has made it
[23:02:06] <coderanger> The Trac part of it (making the ticket) is very easy
[23:02:11] <tharvey> no more warning but my 'No such tagspace 'wiki'' issue still exists
[23:02:31] <coderanger> tharvey: I would email the ML
[23:02:38] <tharvey> what exactly are 'tags' all about? Is it simply a mechanism to associate tag words with pages (like Flicr)?
[23:02:51] <tharvey> ML?
[23:02:53] <coderanger> @ml
[23:02:53] <evil_twin> coderanger: "ml" is http://projects.edgewall.com/trac/wiki/MailingList <-- Search the archives, it's likely somebody else has had the same problem.
[23:03:11] <tharvey> ah, thank you
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[23:04:15] <tharvey> in general, what capabilities does TracTags add to trac?
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[23:05:54] <coderanger> Its just a general secondary-metadata interface
[23:06:20] <coderanger> In the case of wiki pages they are an extra text field, for tickets its the keywords
[23:06:31] <coderanger> You can then query and use those
[23:06:45] <coderanger> The blog plugin uses them to know what pages are part of a blog
[23:07:46] <tharvey> ok, so you can add tags to a page... ie tag a page as 'blog' and give that tag to BlogShow so it knows what pages to treat as blog entrie
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[23:09:43] <coderanger> Yep
[23:09:56] <coderanger> BlogPost just creates a wiki page with the tag already added
[23:10:54] <coderanger> You can use them for whatever you want though
[23:11:40] <tharvey> hmmm... something must be really jacked up wiht my trac installation then. The issues I was having last night seemed to go away when I removed and reinstalled (via building the egg myself this time) TracTags. Now, after installing some Macro's, I'm seeing a slew of errors like: File "/usr/share/trac/wiki-macros/WikiCalendar.3.py", line 1
[23:11:40] <tharvey> <!DOCTYPE html
[23:11:41] <tharvey> ^
[23:15:13] <tharvey> perhaps I should start fresh... how would I completely uninstall trac? rm -rf /usr/share/trac and /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/trac ?
[23:15:19] <coderanger> You didn't download the actual macros
[23:15:38] <coderanger> You downloaded the previews
[23:15:44] <coderanger> Which are HTML pages
[23:16:10] <tharvey> oh lord... heh
[23:16:41] <tharvey> I gotta tell ya, for someone new to python, installing trac,and its extensions is very confusing
[23:17:07] <coderanger> Yeah, I was/am working on a plugin to simplfy things, but I haven't had time to work on it in a while
[23:17:14] <coderanger> Probably doesn't even work anymore
[23:17:55] <coderanger> Trac is still very much in its infancy compared to most similar projects
[23:18:18] <tharvey> anything would help... all the macro's in the macro-bazzar have a link to 'download' them, but based on what you just told me I went and clicked on that link and it didn't give me the raw .py file as I expected it would... gave me the web preview of it
[23:18:47] <tharvey> I really like the design... I'm just trudging through some of the install issues
[23:18:50] <coderanger> It was mentioned recently on the dev list
[23:19:08] <coderanger> PArt of the problem is that the MacroBazaar was a horrible idea
[23:19:21] <coderanger> It should really all be moved to trac-hacks
[23:19:30] <ivan`> can I have trac show a description instead of a last change
[23:20:45] <coderanger> ivan`: For what?
[23:20:52] <tharvey> well... I ran into trouble with the plugins on trac-hacks as well... mostly because it seemed like each one gave different install isntructions
[23:21:07] <ivan`> coderanger, the Browse source view
[23:21:20] <coderanger> ivan`: No
[23:21:30] <ivan`> is it hardcoded?
[23:21:52] <coderanger> ivan`: There is no support for anything else, so I suppose you could say it is
[23:22:16] <coderanger> ivan`: That like saying a browser is hard coded to not edit photos though :P
[23:22:31] <tharvey> I wish macro-bazzar would just give me the download URL instead of having to go through trac to resolve it... I can't just 'wget' it, I have to use a browser
[23:22:33] <ivan`> i'll find a filesystem browser for django
[23:23:28] <coderanger> ivan`: How would a file system browser work with subversion?
[23:23:41] <ivan`> it wouldn't
[23:23:49] <ivan`> i thought trac would make a decent file browser for source code
[23:24:28] <coderanger> If its in a subversion repo, sure
[23:24:41] <coderanger> You cant just point the browser at a folder though
[23:26:02] <coderanger> tharvey: Like I said, the MacroBazaar never worked well ;-)
[23:26:27] <tharvey> ya... I'm re-downloading the 20 or so macro's I downloaded incorrectly last night :)
[23:27:50] <tharvey> a plugin that would inventory the plugins at track-hacks and the macros/processors at edgewall and allow you to install them would be awesome. Is that what you were working on coderanger?
[23:27:57] <coderanger> Yeah
[23:28:01] <coderanger> Take a look at HackInstall
[23:28:19] <coderanger> The interface is good, but I need to rework the backend a whole lot
[23:28:35] <coderanger> Probably use PyPI to distribute the files
[23:28:36] <tharvey> ok, I'll check it out when I get my trac working again
[23:30:19] <coderanger> I doubt it works anymore, I haven't looked at it in months
[23:32:31] <tharvey> I think the concept is great... trac should be distributed with a plugin that allows installation of macros/processors/plugins from know repositories
[23:35:13] * moisei has quit IRC
[23:36:20] <coderanger> tharvey: Feel free to take over work on it ;-)
[23:36:22] <coderanger> @motto
[23:36:22] <evil_twin> coderanger: "motto" is patches accepted
[23:36:51] <tharvey> heh... I was waiting for you to say that. Unfortunately I don't know python at all *feeble copout*
[23:37:11] <coderanger> diveintopython.org :)
[23:38:07] <coderanger> Its one of those things I plan to work on again at some point, my free time just seems to get scarcer by the minute
[23:38:44] <tharvey> I know the feeling... my wife and I just had a baby... I have no idea what free time is anymore
[23:39:24] <coderanger> In my case its that I just got two new jobs (making 4 total)
[23:39:57] <coderanger> Hopefully once school starts up again I will have more time to work on Trac
[23:42:00] <Gershwin> wow, more free time at school than a career
[23:42:56] <tharvey> whoever coined the term 'free time'... I've never found it to be free :)
[23:44:05] <coderanger> Gershwin: Yeah, its probably not a good sign but oh well
[23:44:34] <tharvey> ok got rid of all the bad macro's. Now I only get the error from tBlog about tagspace. I wonder if my TracTags is not working right... shouldn't I have some extra field when editing a page to specify tags?
[23:45:02] <Gershwin> perhaps a better analagous self-defining phrase is in order tharvey
[23:45:21] <coderanger> tharvey: Yes
[23:45:34] <coderanger> Did you disable the built-in wiki module?
[23:45:59] <coderanger> Gershwin: ?
[23:47:44] <tharvey> the other problem I keep having with trac plugins is that there is no relationship between the plugin name and the name you use to enable it... confusing. I have to look at the sourcecode's setup.py to make an attempt to find out what to put in trac.ini
[23:48:03] <coderanger> Thats a setuptools thing
[23:48:28] <tharvey> if I understand correctly setuptools ia a python thing right?
[23:48:45] <coderanger> Its an extension to the standard distutils system
[23:49:09] <coderanger> a setuptools package can contain more than one python module, so they have their own names
[23:49:50] <tharvey> no idea what distutils is either :) I assume its another python thing
[23:50:55] <tharvey> I'm also a little unclear on what changes I need to restart httpd
[23:51:21] <coderanger> Yeah, its the original packaging tool
[23:51:46] <coderanger> Any changes to plugins (but not macros) need a restart
[23:52:17] <coderanger> Some poorly written plugins need a restart on config changes too, even though trac itself doesnt
[23:52:53] <tharvey> coderanger, you were right... I was having some upgrade problem. Until I fixed all my macros and restarted httpd it wasn't clear - when I did that tractags gave me an error about it needing an upgrade
[23:53:01] <tharvey> Now I have a 'Tags' page in the titlebar
[23:53:54] <coderanger> nifty
[23:54:02] <tharvey> and BlogShow isn't complaining anymore, although I'm still trying to figure out how to use it. Thanks!
[23:54:38] <tharvey> so when exactly do I have to restart httpd? anytime I add/update a py file used by trac?
[23:56:11] <coderanger> with plugins, yes
[23:56:16] <tharvey> even though I have a 'Tags' item in my menubar, I still don't see anything related to tags when editing a page. Shouldn't I see a field allowing me to specify tags?
[23:56:25] <coderanger> macros are loaded on-demand, so they aren't a problem
[23:56:27] <tharvey> coderanger, but not macros? how are they different?
[23:56:42] <tharvey> ah
[23:57:11] <coderanger> plugins are actually persistent in the interpreter, which is why they need a reload
[23:57:38] <coderanger> macros are just executed as needed
[23:59:01] <tharvey> coderanger, your HackPlugin states its 'pretty totally broken' :)
[23:59:42] <coderanger> heh
[23:59:59] <coderanger> I like the disclaimer on TracForge personally