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October 02, 2006

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[02:05:32] <cboos> cmlenz: hi, just seen you closed #3419
[02:05:43] <cmlenz> yeah
[02:05:52] <cboos> I think you're actually "completely mistaken" on this one ;)
[02:06:16] <cboos> the ticket was talking about entering straight numbers
[02:06:20] <cboos> like "123"
[02:06:34] <cboos> and then get links to either r123, #123, {123} and what not
[02:06:34] <cmlenz> yes, as is #1268
[02:06:37] <cmlenz> "e.g. when I input 614 in the search field, the changeset 614 should be among the top search results."
[02:07:00] <cboos> Ok, so I'm mistaken on #1268 ;)
[02:07:51] <cmlenz> maybe you only looked at one aspect raised in the comments
[02:08:00] <cboos> yeah, I've mistaken #1268 for the one which was just about "r123"
[02:08:29] <cboos> ok, so I said nothing
[02:08:37] <cboos> too bad the IRC logs are now archived ;)
[02:08:40] <cmlenz> :-)
[02:08:59] <cboos> on a more serious front, I'm now 95% done with the reports
[02:09:12] <cboos> that was a bit challenging ... got to rewrite a lot
[02:09:52] <cboos> it's still messy, but much less so, I think
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[02:10:36] <cmlenz> I briefly looked at the patch from yesterday
[02:11:25] <cmlenz> one thing I noticed was that report_edit etc are not standalone pages... they appear to be included from some main template based on the action or sth, right?
[02:11:37] <cboos> exact.
[02:11:51] <cboos> This is for trying out a different approach than, say, the wiki module
[02:11:53] <cmlenz> I'd rather see the ReportModule just render the correct template directly
[02:12:04] <cmlenz> ah
[02:12:37] <cmlenz> well, I think I prefer the wiki way ;-)
[02:13:01] <cboos> Well, the point is that the report subpages have all the same ctxt nav and footer, so I was interested to see how it would look like with a "webadmin" like approach...
[02:13:59] <cboos> What I wanted to do is to have that, and then raise the question on the Trac-Dev ML, saying "look, we have those 2 approaches, what's best?"
[02:14:45] <cboos> I see pros & cons for both, so it was only for experimenting and getting feedback
[02:15:01] <cboos> not the "definitive" word on it, of course ;)
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[02:17:16] <cmlenz> understood
[02:17:20] <sgorilla1> hello
[02:17:38] <cmlenz> we'll have to refactor the ctxtnav stuff anyway to make it extensible/cleaner
[02:17:54] <cmlenz> so reusing a common ctxtnav across a set of templates will be less of a problem at that point
[02:18:09] <sgorilla1> i have set up stunnel and got tracd to work standalone
[02:18:21] <sgorilla1> and set up user accounts using basic auth
[02:18:47] <sgorilla1> im not sure how to change css for page
[02:19:09] <sgorilla1> using the site_css.cs
[02:19:24] <sgorilla1> do i need to overide css using the clearsilver template?
[02:20:09] <sgorilla1> clearsilver template commands..
[02:20:34] <cboos> cmlenz: about the ctxtnav redesign, I know someone you could ask for help (he'll give you some ARCHITECTURE ideas ;) )
[02:20:52] <cmlenz> heh
[02:21:02] <cmlenz> sgorilla1: you just put your CSS style rules in that file
[02:21:15] <cmlenz> or do an @import
[02:21:20] <sgorilla1> cmlenz: i did not find anything about css style rules in the documenation
[02:21:24] <sgorilla1> I rather do the former
[02:21:46] <sgorilla1> oh nm, the docs on the site are newer than the code
[02:22:02] * cboos thinks the reports are starting to look good...
[02:22:16] <sgorilla1> the reports look awesome =)
[02:22:22] <cmlenz> I'm not sure what you're asking for... look at the CSS files that come with Trac, inspect the markup Trac generates, etc, to find out what styles you want to override
[02:22:37] <sgorilla1> trac can probably be made more general purpose, like a project manager
[02:23:06] <sgorilla1> cmlenz: i just want to change the background color, the simplest way possible
[02:24:12] <sgorilla1> body { background #e1dfce;}
[02:24:12] <sgorilla1>
[02:24:25] <sgorilla1> i did that, but nothing got effected
[02:25:09] <cmlenz> make sure you're outside of the <? ?> comment block
[02:25:27] <sgorilla1> oh im inside of that block
[02:26:11] <sgorilla1> i put it outside no change, do i need to restart trac?
[02:27:05] <cmlenz> look at the page source in the browser to see if what you put in site_css is actually included in the output
[02:27:31] <sgorilla1> its not
[02:27:58] <cmlenz> then you're doing something wrong ;-)
[02:28:04] <cmlenz> you don't need to restart the server
[02:28:09] <sgorilla1> possibly something not set up right in the trac.ini
[02:28:21] <sgorilla1> do i need to set the htdocs_location ?
[02:28:32] <sgorilla1> or base_url ?
[02:28:43] <cmlenz> no
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[02:29:37] <sgorilla1> ok its embedding it
[02:29:53] <sgorilla1> its working i believe, but its not overriding the previous value from trac.css
[02:29:56] <sgorilla1> which has teh background
[02:30:45] <sgorilla1> what is the correct way of overriding the background color from trac.css?
[02:31:46] <cmlenz> body { background: #e1dfce; }
[02:31:49] <cmlenz> (note the colon)
[02:32:09] <sgorilla1> body { background #e1dfce;}
[02:32:14] <sgorilla1> thats what i have'
[02:32:22] <cmlenz> (note the colon) :-P
[02:32:29] <sgorilla1> oh =)
[02:33:14] <sgorilla1> how can you get it to force you to authenicate when you just try to load the page using standalone trac?
[02:33:22] <sgorilla1> or is that even possible in standalone trac?
[02:34:30] <sgorilla1> like make you login
[02:34:42] <cmlenz> that's not possible without some surgery
[02:34:52] <sgorilla1> i don't mind surgery
[02:35:02] <sgorilla1> you think people would want something like that?
[02:35:44] <cmlenz> maybe
[02:36:26] <sgorilla1> what components should i modify to add that?
[02:37:16] <sgorilla1> trac.web.standalone
[02:37:47] <cmlenz> yes
[02:37:55] <sgorilla1> ok i will add that now
[02:41:42] <sgorilla1> i guess easiest way to do it is look to see if the user is logged in, if not ask for authentication
[02:42:19] <sgorilla1> then kick them out to some access denied page
[02:42:22] <cmlenz> there's class called AuthenticationMiddleware in there (IIRC) which you should probably being look at
[02:42:43] <sgorilla1> ok im looking at that now
[02:43:07] <sgorilla1> i guess the object it gets sent to it includes path info
[02:46:31] <sgorilla1> cmlenz: what gets fired each time you load a page, and checks to the path string on the url?
[02:47:11] <cmlenz> ?
[02:48:03] <cmlenz> if I understand you correctly, you mean the request dispatcher, but that probably isn't what you want... what's wrong with AuthenticationMiddleware?
[02:48:22] <sgorilla1> does that get fired each time you load a page?
[02:49:42] <sgorilla1> it seems it does
[02:54:02] <sgorilla1> ok i got it to catch if somone is not logged in
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[02:55:55] <sgorilla1> i guess i cause a redirect to login
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[02:57:16] <sgorilla1> is it possible to redirect inside of AuthenticationMiddleware?
[02:58:48] <sgorilla1> whats the difference between HTTPAuthentication and BasicAuthentication?
[03:01:29] <cboos> hm, it seems I miss my dear ".flatten" method from Ruby...
[03:02:02] <cboos> what's the common idiom in Python to flatten a list of lists?
[03:02:17] <cboos> e.g. going from [[1,2],[3,4,5]] to [1,2,3,4,5]?
[03:02:52] <The_Tick> http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/Flatten/0.2 ?
[03:03:37] <sgorilla1> choos: you can implement that with metaprogramming
[03:03:43] * The_Tick runs off
[03:03:47] <cmlenz> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/weblog/arch_d7_2006_08_12.shtml#e437 (+ comments)
[03:03:48] <cboos> hm yes ;)
[03:04:06] <sgorilla1> choos: show me the implementation in ruby
[03:04:31] <cboos> he, in Ruby it's a builtin, you don't care ...
[03:04:45] <sgorilla1> sorry not implementation, usage
[03:05:00] <cboos> [[1,2],[3,4,5]].flatten == [1,2,3,4,5]
[03:05:25] <cboos> cmlenz: hm, I tried something like that, weird, let me try again...
[03:06:35] <cboos> oh! got the order of the embedded 'for' wrong...
[03:07:12] <sgorilla1> choos: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/python-tutor/2302231
[03:08:10] <cboos> sgorilla1: thanks, but I'll go for the iterator version, I think
[03:09:09] <sgorilla1> choos: http://rightfootin.blogspot.com/2006/09/more-on-python-flatten.html
[03:09:50] <cboos> ok ok, I'm overwhelmed now ;)
[03:10:25] <sgorilla1> i think there is a bug in standalone trac where it does authentication
[03:10:32] <sgorilla1> it doesn't log you out correctly
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[03:11:34] <sgorilla1> but maybe its like that because im not using the current svn
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[03:25:16] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: arround?
[03:25:44] <s0undt3ch> I'm having a slight trouble, mind argueing
[03:26:06] <cboos> cmlenz: et voila, the report migration is done, enjoy r3816 ;)
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[03:26:45] <cmlenz> cboos: cool
[03:26:47] <cmlenz> s0undt3ch: whatsup?
[03:27:03] <s0undt3ch> i'll explain, I have trac behind pound, an http proxy
[03:27:37] <s0undt3ch> pound rewrites REMOTE_ADDRESS ot it's own, and adds X-Forwarded-For
[03:28:08] <s0undt3ch> I tought about adding support for X-Forwarded-For, ie, if that's found first, use that instead of REMOTE_ADDRESS
[03:28:47] <s0undt3ch> but, that might introduce some security probs, because a bad client could add X-Forwarded-For
[03:29:24] <s0undt3ch> another thing I found out is that trac.web.api, does not use config, for example to switch that behaviour on/off
[03:29:30] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: what would you sugest?
[03:30:14] <cmlenz> I don't really understand
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[03:30:45] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: my trac envs are behing an http proxy, so far you undertoof right? :)
[03:30:56] <cmlenz> yeah
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[03:50:30] <cmlenz> s0undt3ch: I understand the REMOTE_ADDR problem, but don't understand what you mean with the config switch
[03:58:27] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: sorry I had to work a bit :)
[04:01:32] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: the idea is, only use the X-Forwarded-For if the user has enabled that on config, and a user will only enable that if he runs trac behind a proxy service like me
[04:02:22] <cmlenz> ah
[04:03:36] <s0undt3ch> but my fear is how much impact will that cause
[04:04:02] <s0undt3ch> at least a performance impact, since that config check will be made per request right?
[04:06:40] <cmlenz> trac.web.api shouldn't have any direct ties to config
[04:07:04] <cmlenz> what you'd need would be an option for the Request constructor, and pass that option from trac.web.main, depending on some config option
[04:07:13] <cmlenz> the config is only reloaded if it's changed
[04:12:51] * jesterKing is now known as amino
[04:13:07] <s0undt3ch> alect: so, we re-set req.remote_addr on the Request constructor, if that hipotetical option is set?
[04:14:03] <alect> what what
[04:14:35] <alect> misdirected?
[04:15:49] * amino is now known as jesterKing
[04:15:54] <s0undt3ch> alect: huh?
[04:16:43] <alect> you asked me a question, which i assume was meant for cmlenz
[04:17:59] <s0undt3ch> ah, yes misdirected :)
[04:18:12] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: so, we re-set req.remote_addr on the Request constructor, if that hipotetical option is set?
[04:19:07] <cboos> cmlenz: about your tracd refactoring [3811:3813], should I backport that to 0.10.1 ?
[04:20:18] <cmlenz> nah, it's neither bug fixes nor enhancements... just plain boring refactoring
[04:20:27] <cmlenz> bbiab
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[04:30:50] <cboos> dammit, I don't have the perms on 0.10-stable, cmlenz can you fix that?
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[05:07:56] <andres> cboos, how do you thought to implement the solution with a custom collation sequence? Afaik they have to be implemented in c?
[05:08:19] <cboos> no, recent versions of pysqlite allow you to do that in python
[05:08:30] <cboos> but I haven't checked the details yet
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[05:10:24] <cboos> http://docs.python.org/lib/sqlite3-Connection-Objects.html#l2h-2557
[05:10:53] <cboos> and http://www.sqlite.org/lang_createindex.html
[05:11:01] <cboos> (look for COLLATE)
[05:11:13] <cboos> putting the two together should do the trick
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[05:14:30] <andres> cboos, cool.
[05:14:48] <andres> cboos, now the question remains about how efficent generating this index will be...
[05:16:11] <cboos> + the minor question about how to implement this index in a true svn backend /and/ database backend independent way ;)
[05:17:05] <cboos> so hopefully the performance will be so terrible than we won't have to code it at all ;)
[05:17:23] <cboos> but I doubt, should be a big win
[05:18:53] <andres> cboos, especially as the index generation shouldnt happen that often.
[05:19:42] <cboos> yes, the index creation should be done after a resync, and the index update will happen during incremental resync
[05:20:18] <cboos> (the first "resync" being the one done with trac-admin, or when creating the env)
[05:24:13] <cboos> Actually, there's also a totally different approach that could be taken. We could explicitely track the latest revision, in a separate table. Other version system have the notion of intra-repository branches, each having a "latest" revision (heads in Mercurial terminology). In the SVN case, that would be only the youngest rev, but then, we wouldn't need to scan all the revisions (with or...
[05:24:14] <cboos> ...without an index) to find it.
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[05:39:21] <prologic> http://prologic.shortcircuit.net.au/ <-- any ideas why the Image macro does this ?
[05:39:40] <prologic> I'm gonna investigate and try to remove this annoying defect (ihmo) but some pointers by nice :)
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[06:13:00] <prologic> Q: Is there any way to set the default edit height for individualy users ?
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[06:58:32] <cboos> cmlenz: ping?
[06:58:49] <cmlenz> pong
[06:58:53] <cboos> good ;)
[06:59:21] <cboos> I tried to merge a few things on 0.10-stable, but I have no permissions there...
[06:59:25] <cboos> could you fix that please?
[07:00:29] <cmlenz> done
[07:00:33] <cboos> thanks!
[07:00:36] <cmlenz> (noone had access :-P )
[07:00:43] <cboos> heh
[07:00:50] <cboos> on a different topic, the move of the wiki_to_html to the templates seems to go rather well
[07:01:02] <cboos> lots of things to change, though, so it's taking a while...
[07:01:44] <cboos> it simplifies a lot of stuff, e.g. no longer the need for (format=='rss') hacks
[07:01:56] <cmlenz> what would you think about merging the genshi branch to trunk rather sooner than later?
[07:02:18] <cboos> actually, I wanted to propose a review of the genshi branch just after that last change ;)
[07:02:28] <cboos> i.e. probably this evening
[07:02:46] <cmlenz> okay, sounds good
[07:03:11] <cboos> I haven't tested with the latest Genshi, though
[07:03:31] <cmlenz> I'd merge before moving wiki_to_html into the templates
[07:03:56] <cboos> oh, that's really not that far away... give me one hour more ;)
[07:04:56] <cmlenz> I just think it'll break stuff
[07:05:10] <cboos> hm, plugins?
[07:05:13] <cmlenz> which I still haven't remembered
[07:05:17] <cmlenz> no, macros
[07:05:37] <cboos> old macros using hdf, for sure, but for the others, seems to be fine
[07:07:03] <cmlenz> okay, I trust we with that ;-)
[07:07:09] <cmlenz> you, even
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[07:08:23] <TinoW> hi
[07:10:15] * TinoW is biten by SubversionException: ("Can't set position pointer in file ' ... project/db/revs/416': Invalid argument", 22) - problem. And only if I go mod_python. It works w/ tracd
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[07:10:40] <cmlenz> cboos: now I remember... try the diff processor
[07:11:02] <cmlenz> it's too late to add the stylesheet it needs when wiki_to_html is called in the template
[07:11:40] <cboos> Ok, reproduced...
[07:12:36] <cboos> well, that looks like to be something that should be addressed rather than avoided
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[07:12:53] <cmlenz> cboos: any ideas
[07:12:53] <cmlenz> ?
[07:13:38] <cboos> well, I certainly will, give me some time to think about it ...
[07:16:02] <cboos> Hm, this looks like a serious issue. I'll ask Ilias.
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[07:17:24] <Pyretic> hi, just updated to 0.10 and my source browser displays "Access denied" in the source
[07:18:07] <omry> you guys, FireStats 0.9.6 is out, and it supports trac. http://firefang.net/projects/firestats/
[07:19:33] <TinoW> very strange - all projects work w/ tracd - some work with mod_python, some dont and the ones they work have output on svnadmin list-dblogs
[07:20:08] <coderanger> TinoW: Try a dump/load maybe?
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[07:21:47] <TinoW> coderanger: well, they work as repositories and they work w/ tracd. trashing the repositories isnt really an option since I'm not the only one using it ;)
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[07:22:29] <coderanger> You don't trash them, just dump to a file, move them over, make a clean repo, and reload from the dump
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[07:23:32] <TinoW> coderanger: sure, but then I have an unrelated copy. And I really dont see the difference between tracd and mod_python
[07:23:49] <coderanger> TinoW: You delete the old one afterwards ....
[07:24:30] <TinoW> coderanger: and I'd have to block people from writing to the old during the process ;) I'd rather not do that ;)
[07:24:41] <TinoW> coderanger: beside that I cant see how it would help?
[07:24:49] <coderanger> It takes less than a minute
[07:25:08] <coderanger> And if you are seeing db issues, it will fix them
[07:25:25] <coderanger> Since it has to reform the DB as it does the load
[07:25:28] <TinoW> coderanger: but why dont I see these db issues when I use tracd?
[07:25:49] <coderanger> Not a clue, but its worth a shot
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[07:27:37] <coderanger> Possibly its related to some kind of file locking, but I doubt it
[07:27:51] <coderanger> You probably want to ask the #subversion people
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[07:32:31] <TinoW> coderange: ok, the copy does not work - same error
[07:32:34] <TinoW> :(
[07:32:40] <TinoW> code: thx for help anyway
[07:34:24] <Pyretic> hmmm
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[07:34:57] <coderanger> TinoW: DB corruption then
[07:37:27] <TinoW> code?
[07:37:35] <TinoW> coderanger: which db?
[07:37:40] <coderanger> The subversion db
[07:37:57] <TinoW> coderanger: but only corrupt for mod_python?
[07:38:10] <TinoW> coderanger: and also corrupt after reload?
[07:38:35] <coderanger> wait, the action of copying doesnt work, or the end result doen work?
[07:38:51] <Pyretic> hi, just updated to 0.10 and my source browser displays "Access denied" in the source
[07:39:15] <TinoW> coderanger: the end result behaves the same as the original in respect of work/dontwork w tracd/mod_python
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[08:02:45] <TinoW> *ping*
[08:02:46] <TinoW> ;)
[08:03:14] <prologic> pong
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[08:08:25] <prologic> s0undt3ch, I have another bug for you
[08:09:54] <misc> would it make sense to auto-detect installed component in trac/db_default.py, at least for db backend and vcs backend, instead of using a static list ?
[08:10:54] <prologic> s0undt3ch, when you create a new page for the first-time I keep getting: AttributeError: 'WikiNotifyEmail' object has no attribute 'wikidiff'
[08:11:01] <coderanger> misc: hmm?
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[08:11:58] <misc> coderanger: i am doing a package of trac, i have splitted mysql, sqlite and postgresql backend in subpackage, to make them requires the proper binding
[08:12:24] <misc> coderanger: but, trac try to load all backend by default
[08:12:40] <coderanger> misc: If you removing parts of Trac, I think thats a risk you take ;-)
[08:13:16] <coderanger> Trac only autoloads components that are actually part of Trac
[08:13:20] <s0undt3ch> prologic: heh, great, another one :)
[08:13:41] <misc> so either i place the file back in the main packages, and let empty subpackages handle the requires on binding, or manage to load them by default
[08:14:09] <misc> coderanger: so you suggest to not place them in subpackages ?
[08:14:37] <coderanger> misc: Trac already handles autodetecting what DB bindings are available
[08:14:49] <misc> coderanger: mhh, ok
[08:15:06] <misc> i do not like empty subpackages, but well
[08:15:36] <coderanger> misc: You may want to do something like Gentoo's USE flags
[08:15:45] <coderanger> Or BSD's flavors
[08:16:45] <misc> in the principe, yes, that is what i want
[08:17:00] <prologic> s0undt3ch, sorry :)
[08:18:20] <TinoW> hm. does tracd use another code path to access svn then mod_python?
[08:18:50] <coderanger> Nope
[08:19:04] <TinoW> so I wonder where the difference comes
[08:19:14] <coderanger> The only difference between the frontends is how the pass the request to the dispatcher and how the show output
[08:19:15] <s0undt3ch> prologic: np, I suspected of it yesterday, but I forgot to take care of it today
[08:19:16] <TinoW> very very strange
[08:19:39] <coderanger> TinoW: Maybe some libarary that compiled into apache is interfering?
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[08:20:12] <prologic> s0undt3ch, nps, I'll update when 1.1 is out :)
[08:20:12] <TinoW> coderange: but only interferring with some repositories?
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[08:21:13] <s0undt3ch> prologic: nope rc4 ;)
[08:21:33] <LarstiQ> prologic: ah, but you do not need the working tree for trac bzr support
[08:22:14] <prologic> you don't ?
[08:22:14] * idnar_ is now known as idnar
[08:22:18] <prologic> please explain :)
[08:22:26] <prologic> s0undt3ch, ahh nps rc4 then :)
[08:33:16] <TinoW> prologic: uh. nps, the cms?
[08:37:45] <prologic> eh ?
[08:41:21] <LarstiQ> prologic: only the .bzr is ever needed
[08:41:48] <LarstiQ> prologic: the working tree is for when you want to edit it (or, deployment)
[08:42:20] <LarstiQ> prologic: but for publishing branches, working with trac, there is no need for a working tree
[08:43:12] <cboos> cmlenz: what about keeping the genshi branch for experimenting with the wiki_to_html refactoring?
[08:45:36] <cmlenz> dunno, does that really require a whole branch?
[08:46:03] <prologic> LarstiQ, ahh thanks for that info
[08:47:38] <LarstiQ> prologic: np, it did take some tracking you down to provide that info though ;P
[08:47:41] <s0undt3ch> how do I get every header a req has? I need to log that
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[08:48:43] <cboos> well, fixing the add_stylesheet and co might require some experiments... But if we don't mind doing that on trunk, well, I'm ok
[08:49:08] <cboos> cmlenz: want to have a look at the patch?
[08:49:20] <cmlenz> sure
[08:49:46] <s0undt3ch> cmlenz: any idea how I can achieve that?
[08:50:12] <cmlenz> s0undt3ch: you'd need to look into req.environ
[08:50:22] <s0undt3ch> k, thanks
[08:50:25] <cmlenz> which is a WSGI environ, with values very similar to that of a CGI script
[08:50:40] <cboos> patch is quite big, "pasting" that on t.e.o: http://trac.edgewall.org/attachment/wiki/ChristianBoos/wiki2x_in_templates.diff
[08:50:59] <prologic> LarstiQ, haha I appreciate it :) I wasn't really worried either way
[08:51:01] <prologic> I mean it works :)
[08:52:21] <cmlenz> cboos: nice... no solution yet for the stylesheet problem, right?
[08:52:35] <cboos> yeah, still brainstorming...
[08:52:46] <cboos> (and Ilias hasn't answered ;) )
[08:53:01] <cmlenz> I think the only thing that may work would be to put an <style> block directly above the macro output... but that's not valid HTML
[08:53:27] <cboos> but when you said you wanted to refactor the context nav stuff,
[08:53:48] <cboos> wasn't that meant to allow for more flexible manipulation of the context nav data,
[08:53:52] <cboos> e.g. by macros?
[08:54:03] <cboos> Then the add_stylesheet might be solved the same way...
[08:54:15] <cmlenz> not really by macros... by other kinds of plugins (INavigationContributor, I guess)
[08:54:36] <cboos> I mean, we have to find a way to do some postprocessing anyway,
[08:54:48] <LarstiQ> prologic: you're using trac-bzr?
[08:54:58] <cmlenz> I don't see a way to add something to the <HEAD> of a doc by some function that's called later in the template rendering process without doing multiple passes over the output somehow
[08:54:59] <prologic> *nods*
[08:55:06] <prologic> LarstiQ, *nods*
[08:55:18] <prologic> LarstiQ, on http://prologic.shortcircuit.net.au/
[08:55:37] <cmlenz> cboos: indeed, a stream filter might wo