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October 13, 2006

[00:03:33] * em-dash has quit IRC
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[00:12:40] * Guard has joined #trac
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[00:14:59] <coderanger> sgorilla78: Make sure what you downloaded was actually the egg
[00:15:08] <coderanger> And not Trac's HTML preview page
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[00:45:05] <coderanger> prologic: You got tinymce working with 0.10, right?
[00:46:00] <lyken> heh
[00:46:09] <lyken> if you try and use tinymce in safari (on os x)
[00:46:15] <lyken> you just get an error pop up
[00:46:25] <lyken> 'this is very very experimental and i don't think it works'
[00:46:29] <lyken> and then nothing does
[00:46:52] <coderanger> Yeah, I dont care for it myself, but someone I am hosting wants it
[00:48:15] <lyken> *nods*
[00:48:48] <lyken> im so used to doing everything with inline html for some formatting
[00:50:56] <coderanger> I just don't care much about formatting
[00:51:04] <coderanger> We use the wiki for internal info only
[00:51:29] <coderanger> So all that matters is logical layout, doesn't need to look pretty
[00:51:33] * tkp has joined #trac
[00:53:28] * sgorilla78 learns how to do plugins
[00:53:40] <coderanger> its very handy :)
[00:54:12] <sgorilla78> =)
[00:54:16] <sgorilla78> im trying simple ticket now
[00:54:28] <sgorilla78> i guess i need to install it like python setup.py install
[00:54:53] <coderanger> Or python setup.py bdist_egg
[00:55:05] <coderanger> and then copy the egg file to the env's plugins folder
[00:55:12] <sgorilla78> oh
[00:55:13] <coderanger> or to the global plugins folder
[00:55:27] <sgorilla78> if i do python setup.py install, does it make it global?
[00:55:46] <coderanger> Yes, but it installs it to python's site-packages folder
[00:55:54] <coderanger> I prefer to keep trac plugins on their own
[00:55:59] <sgorilla78> yeah i would assume so
[00:56:01] <coderanger> either way works fine though
[00:56:04] <sgorilla78> i guess its better to install it locally
[00:56:20] <sgorilla78> [components]
[00:56:20] <sgorilla78> simpleticket = enabled
[00:56:21] <coderanger> You can use the /usr/share/trac/plugins folder for global ones
[00:56:25] <sgorilla78> does that look right?
[00:56:26] <sgorilla78> ok
[00:56:41] <coderanger> usually its more like simpleticket.* = enabled
[00:56:44] <coderanger> but it doesn't matter
[00:56:53] <sgorilla78> ok i will do that
[00:57:08] <sgorilla78> when you add plugins do you have to restart the app?
[00:57:28] <sgorilla78> ok i have simpleticket.* = enabled
[00:57:39] <coderanger> yes
[00:57:43] <sgorilla78> is there a way i can see debug info, like what plugins are installed?
[00:57:49] <sgorilla78> i restarted the app
[00:57:53] <coderanger> any code changes need a restart
[00:57:53] <sgorilla78> not sure what im supposed to get..
[00:57:57] <sgorilla78> ok
[00:58:01] <coderanger> pure config changes do not though
[00:58:10] <sgorilla78> do i need config for simpleticket?
[00:58:12] <coderanger> Check you log to verify it is loading
[00:58:16] <coderanger> @logging
[00:58:16] <evil_twin> coderanger: "logging" is http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracLogging <-- Enable debug logging to file, ensure your environments log/ directory is writeable by your web server user, check for errors.
[00:58:47] <sgorilla78> im running tracd
[00:59:01] <sgorilla78> and its in debug mode
[00:59:06] <sgorilla78> put when i start it nothing happens
[00:59:25] <sgorilla78> it shows what pages i access
[00:59:29] <coderanger> make a user with the permission TICKET_CREATE_SIMPLE
[00:59:33] <coderanger> but not TICKET_CREATE
[00:59:37] <sgorilla78> ok
[00:59:47] <coderanger> when you go to New Ticket you will see some fields hidden
[01:01:26] <sgorilla78> ok i see the available actions now
[01:01:54] <sgorilla78> AssertionError: Authentication information not available.
[01:02:08] <sgorilla78> i guess i need to figure out how to setup up users
[01:02:16] <sgorilla78> i guess also i need to true logout plugin also
[01:02:20] <coderanger> That just means you haven't setup authentication
[01:02:54] <sgorilla78> what do you recommend for authentication?
[01:03:07] <sgorilla78> i want to have something simple, then run it over ssl eventually
[01:03:07] <coderanger> Varies based on your needs
[01:03:17] <sgorilla78> like some type of .htaccess like thing
[01:03:17] <coderanger> most of my sites just use HTTP auth (the default)
[01:03:25] <sgorilla78> or if its easier, use a form
[01:03:46] <coderanger> Some of my sites use AccountManager's form-based logins
[01:04:19] <sgorilla78> ok i guess i can set up http auth when i start tracd
[01:04:32] <coderanger> yes
[01:04:45] <sgorilla78> create an htpasswd file, keep it simple for now
[01:12:35] <sgorilla78> hmm
[01:12:43] <sgorilla78> can i get more verbose debugging information?
[01:13:01] <sgorilla78> for example, im trying to login, and im getting a login failure, all i see are access logs from tracd
[01:13:29] <sgorilla78> ok i got it working
[01:13:57] <sgorilla78> i added a user, gave them access to simple ticket
[01:14:43] <coderanger> Click "New Ticket" and see what happens ;-)
[01:15:12] <sgorilla78> looks the same to me
[01:15:16] <coderanger> make sure that user (and therefore anonymous) doesn't have TICKET_CREATE
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[01:15:24] * ChanServ changes topic to "http://trac.edgewall.org/ | http://trac-hacks.org/ | Latest version - 0.10"
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[01:15:35] <sgorilla78> ok i will do that
[01:16:28] <sgorilla78> ok i removed TICKET_VIEW from anonymous
[01:16:44] <sgorilla78> ok guess i need to take care of TICKET_*
[01:17:11] <coderanger> its just TICKET_CREATE that matters
[01:17:28] <sgorilla78> oh i just did TICK_VIEW
[01:17:49] <sgorilla78> ValueError: too many values to unpack
[01:18:09] <coderanger> pastebin the traceback
[01:18:12] <coderanger> lisppaste5: url
[01:18:12] <lisppaste5> To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/trac and enter your paste.
[01:19:44] <lisppaste5> sgorilla pasted "ValueError: too many values to unpack" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/27887
[01:19:57] <sgorilla78> woah, that is cool
[01:20:37] <sgorilla78> woah it can detect context in irc logs, but its not working...
[01:21:20] <sgorilla78> i guess i can have it throw itself into a interactive console
[01:21:24] <sgorilla78> and i can inspect the objects
[01:21:44] <coderanger> Are you using trac trunk still?
[01:22:05] <coderanger> simpleticket won't work with that
[01:22:11] <sgorilla78> no
[01:22:17] <sgorilla78> i switch to .10
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[01:22:22] * ChanServ changes topic to "http://trac.edgewall.org/ | http://trac-hacks.org/ | Latest version - 0.10"
[01:22:22] <sgorilla78> useing all default debian stuff
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[01:22:28] <sgorilla78> try to keep it simple
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[01:22:57] <sgorilla78> get it be loading the wrong plugin, like the one for 0.9 instead of 0.10?
[01:23:24] <coderanger> No, it looks like you are using trunk still
[01:24:12] <sgorilla78> hmm how would i tell?
[01:24:22] <sgorilla78> About Trac 0.11dev
[01:24:25] <sgorilla78> yeah your correct
[01:24:28] <coderanger> Genshi uses a tuple of 3 values as a return value for process_request, Clearsilver uses 2
[01:24:59] <sgorilla78> ok let me try to resetup the environment
[01:26:25] <sgorilla78> im going to manually delete the trac, then reinstall from deb package
[01:26:31] <sgorilla78> hopefully that will take care of it
[01:26:40] <coderanger> its not the env that matters
[01:26:44] <coderanger> its the python modules
[01:26:54] <sgorilla78> yeah im deleting those
[01:27:13] * amino is now known as jesterKing
[01:28:13] <sgorilla78> hmm maybe debian unstable is using trac-dev
[01:28:19] <sgorilla78> arg...
[01:28:26] <coderanger> Um, no
[01:28:29] <sgorilla78> i guess if i want to use plugins i need to stay with 0.10
[01:28:40] <sgorilla78> ImportError: No module named genshi.core
[01:28:40] <coderanger> Its a safer bet
[01:28:56] <sgorilla78> i removed trac from the modules directory
[01:29:03] <sgorilla78> then reinstalled from debian unstable
[01:29:14] <sgorilla78> wierd..
[01:29:20] <coderanger> rm -rf /usr/lib/python2.?/site-packages/trac /usr/local/lib/python2.?/site-packages/trac
[01:29:30] <sgorilla78> ok
[01:29:56] <sgorilla78> done
[01:30:33] <sgorilla78> Setting up trac (0.10-1) ...
[01:30:49] <sgorilla78> ok i think that fixed the problem
[01:31:48] <sgorilla78> im going to try to do a local plugin this time
[01:32:37] <sgorilla78> ok i made the egg, i guess i put that in plugins
[01:36:02] <sgorilla78> ok now its setup
[01:36:28] <sgorilla78> and i think the local egg is working
[01:37:54] <sgorilla78> ok i went to new ticket
[01:38:00] <sgorilla78> it seems to put it in different order
[01:38:06] <sgorilla78> i see nothing that changed
[01:38:19] <coderanger> does the URL end in /simpleticket?
[01:38:24] <sgorilla78> yes
[01:38:29] <coderanger> then its working :)
[01:38:36] <sgorilla78> do i need to add any configuration?
[01:38:40] <coderanger> you need to configure which fields to hide
[01:39:02] <sgorilla78> ok i will read the docs on that
[01:39:18] <sgorilla78> hmm trac-hacks.org is having some performance issues
[01:39:25] <sgorilla78> probably from spiders
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[01:41:06] <sgorilla78> coderanger: sweet its working =)
[01:41:19] <sgorilla78> thanks for your help
[01:43:49] <sgorilla78> when i have users, how do i associate email addresses to them?
[01:43:54] <sgorilla78> so notification can work
[01:44:15] * weigon_ is now known as weigon
[01:46:01] <asmodai> ok
[01:46:06] <asmodai> time to hack up ticketdelete
[01:46:51] <coderanger> hmm?
[01:47:01] <asmodai> to make work with genshi
[01:47:17] <sgorilla78> i downloaed the TracAccountManager
[01:47:28] <asmodai> For the glorious expansion of genshi-enabled plugins!
[01:47:30] <sgorilla78> nm i figured it out
[01:47:58] <coderanger> asmodai: Heh, have fun with that :)
[01:48:10] <sgorilla78> im staying with 0.10 for now =)
[01:48:12] <asmodai> coderanger: What kind of maintainer are you?!
[01:48:18] * asmodai throws peanuts at coderanger
[01:48:20] <asmodai> :P
[01:48:23] <coderanger> asmodai: When I do the final "port" to Genshi I am going to redo the UI from scratch
[01:48:28] <sgorilla78> haha
[01:48:30] <asmodai> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[01:48:45] * asmodai throws more peanuts at coderanger
[01:48:55] <coderanger> asmodai: As soon as Genshi filters are working, its going to be my first one to go
[01:49:03] <coderanger> asmodai: What, you like the UI?
[01:49:11] <coderanger> asmodai: It was designed to be as annoying as possible
[01:49:13] <asmodai> Hahah, well, it works (sort of)!
[01:49:18] <asmodai> Was it?
[01:50:12] <coderanger> Back when I started it, no one had thought of needing it for spam removal, it was for admins who wanted to delete tickets instead of marking them invalid
[01:50:15] * BrianHV has quit IRC
[01:50:30] <coderanger> so to discourage its use, I made the main deletion UI annoying
[01:50:41] <coderanger> 2 text boxes and a JS popup is annoying to me anyway
[01:51:51] * angrymike has joined #trac
[01:51:52] <coderanger> I also dislike that ticket delete and change delete are two different screens
[01:54:14] * hpnadig has joined #trac
[01:55:17] <asmodai> coderanger: yeah, but akismet doesn't catch everything
[01:55:29] <coderanger> asmodai: Yes, now we know that
[01:55:33] <asmodai> :D
[01:55:42] <coderanger> Way back then there was no Trac spam :P
[01:55:52] <asmodai> The world was a better place...
[01:55:53] <coderanger> at least not at the kind of automated scale there is now
[01:56:00] <asmodai> it's insane now yea
[01:59:16] <sgorilla78> ok i installed the WebAdmin
[01:59:32] <sgorilla78> i have TRAC_ADMIN in my avaiable actions, i set that for a user, but im not getting an ADMIN button
[02:00:48] <sgorilla78> ok its working now
[02:00:52] <asmodai> cmlenz: oi!
[02:00:57] * asmodai pokes cmlenz
[02:02:05] * asmodai whips out the cattle prod
[02:02:11] * sgorilla78 looks for more plugins
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[02:02:52] * TuRKiYem changes topic to "�lamiyet Ruhumuz,T� Bedenimizdir..�Fransa art�ay�a�ayacak� TuRKiYem!.. http://www.webmaster.cjb.net irc.muhabbet.org / #T�m / aYKa"
[02:02:52] * ChanServ changes topic to "http://trac.edgewall.org/ | http://trac-hacks.org/ | Latest version - 0.10"
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[02:03:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +o coderanger
[02:03:28] * coderanger sets mode: +b *!*@85.101.89.22
[02:03:37] <asmodai> *sigh*
[02:03:42] <coderanger> Got him this time :)
[02:04:50] <sgorilla78> hmm
[02:05:05] * asmodai pokes cmlenz with the charged cattle prod
[02:05:17] <sgorilla78> is that irc channel title spam?
[02:08:42] * lyken has quit IRC
[02:09:00] <coderanger> sgorilla78: He was trying
[02:09:13] <coderanger> Jonas has titleguard on
[02:09:42] <prologic> coderanger, yes I have tinymce working with 0.10
[02:09:48] <prologic> I've attached pathces for 0.9 and 0.10
[02:09:55] <prologic> as a ticket associated with that plugin
[02:10:06] <prologic> you have to disable the tractags.web_ui though :/
[02:11:31] <coderanger> prologic: Yeah, looks like mostly the same changes I made
[02:13:32] <prologic> :)
[02:13:50] <prologic> if I had write access to the plugin I'd have created a 0.10 branch already :)
[02:13:53] * lyken has joined #trac
[02:14:09] <coderanger> just ask alec
[02:14:30] <prologic> yeah he's not always around :) (like me) hehe
[02:14:37] <coderanger> email ;-)
[02:14:38] <prologic> I'll ask him though
[02:14:42] <prologic> ahh yeah true
[02:14:53] <prologic> when you're on irc it never occurs to you to email someone :)
[02:15:08] <cmlenz> coderanger: how about integrating the ticket-deletion stuff in trac core for 0.11? I'd love that...
[02:15:20] <prologic> *meh*
[02:15:23] <prologic> it's a pougin :)
[02:15:24] <coderanger> cmlenz: Sounds good to me :)
[02:15:25] <prologic> *plugin
[02:15:48] <cmlenz> but of course not as a webadmin page, but rather integrated with the main ticket UI
[02:15:52] <prologic> hye I've always wanted to know, (I've seen interesting looking Trac sites before)
[02:16:00] <prologic> is there something interesting/different you can do with the main nav bar ?
[02:16:10] * eblot has quit IRC
[02:16:12] <prologic> have it on the side, create extra nav items that link to pages, etc ?
[02:16:21] <coderanger> cmlenz: Or you could make an interface to Genshi match expressions and it wouldn't matter ;-)
[02:17:07] <cmlenz> yeah yeah :-P
[02:19:58] <coderanger> If its possible to keep TicketDelete out of the main codebase, its probably better
[02:20:12] <coderanger> decoupled release cycles and all that nonsense :)
[02:20:22] <asmodai> cmlenz: oi!
[02:20:31] <asmodai> cmlenz: http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/ApiDocs/genshi.template
[02:20:35] <asmodai> cmlenz: check the bottom
[02:21:06] <cmlenz> asmodai: yeah, I've seen that... ReST not liking epydoc style param documentation
[02:21:22] <asmodai> Make it so Number One.
[02:21:27] <asmodai> :P
[02:21:40] <cmlenz> coderanger: in many cases yes, but here I think it'd make sense to move it into the core
[02:21:56] <cmlenz> and then rather move the whole ticket system out into a plugin ;-)
[02:22:26] * sam` has quit IRC
[02:22:27] <prologic> coderanger, is genshi itself stable ? (I'm considering using it for some projects vs. kid)
[02:23:05] <coderanger> cmlenz: Maybe it would make sense to bundle the current release of ticketdelete (and maybe a few others) with Trac releases?
[02:24:16] <coderanger> prologic: Haven't used it yet, still waiting for the trac interface to quiet down before I start trying to port thing
[02:24:29] <cmlenz> hmm, I don't like bundling
[02:24:35] * asmodai is currently rewriting the ticketdelete cs to genshi :P
[02:25:08] <prologic> coderanger, okay. genshi is a fork of kid developed by the trac team right ?
[02:25:29] <coderanger> cmlenz: The only other thing that springs to mind as should be (bundled/included/something) is IniAdmin
[02:25:35] <cmlenz> prologic: http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/GenshiFaq
[02:25:52] <coderanger> prologic: Ask cmlenz that and see if he starts foaming at the mouth ;-)
[02:26:30] <asmodai> hahaha
[02:26:40] <cmlenz> nah
[02:26:42] <cmlenz> also: http://www.cmlenz.net/blog/2006/08/ann_markup.html
[02:26:45] <prologic> okay :)
[02:26:55] <prologic> my apologies cmlenz :)
[02:27:11] <asmodai> cmlenz: mmm, does py:if allow an and or && construct?
[02:27:24] <cmlenz> sure
[02:27:28] <cmlenz> any python expression goes
[02:27:50] <asmodai> py:if="blah" && py:if="thistoo"
[02:27:53] <asmodai> like this or more
[02:27:56] <asmodai> py:if="blah" and py:if="thistoo"
[02:28:28] <cmlenz> py:if="blah and thistoo"
[02:28:30] <asmodai> ah
[02:28:34] <asmodai> in that sense.
[02:28:36] <asmodai> gotcha.
[02:28:50] <asmodai> cmlenz: can you update http://genshi.edgewall.org/wiki/Documentation/xml-templates.html#id15 with that? :)
[02:29:05] <cmlenz> yeah
[02:29:23] <asmodai> Danke schön :)
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[02:33:31] <sgorilla78> what is the plugin that lets you do ticket dependencies?
[02:33:39] <sgorilla78> or is that a seperate branch?
[02:34:56] <asmodai> cmlenz: mmm, I must say that I like the way genshi flows
[02:35:43] <coderanger> sgorilla78: There isn't really one, but a bunch use data from custom field to almost do it
[02:35:54] <asmodai> Isn't cboos working on something?
[02:36:00] <coderanger> Trac just doesn't enforce it
[02:36:30] * divya has quit IRC
[02:36:30] <sgorilla78> create a custom field like depends on?
[02:36:41] * divya has joined #trac
[02:36:41] <coderanger> something like that
[02:37:10] <sgorilla78> is there a way to do subtickets?
[02:37:29] <coderanger> Again, not really but you can fake it
[02:37:51] <asmodai> sgorilla78: Those are features I still want myself as well yea.
[02:41:56] <sgorilla78> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_constraints
[02:43:24] <coderanger> ?
[02:44:04] <sgorilla78> nm
[02:49:40] * bendeb has joined #trac
[02:49:47] * bendeb is now known as MrDebout
[02:50:09] <MrDebout> hi
[02:51:12] * shawn has quit IRC
[02:51:53] <coderanger> hello
[02:56:56] <coderanger> Ugh, I really need to stop staying up this late
[03:01:28] <sgorilla78> heh
[03:02:54] <sgorilla78> why doesnt logout work?
[03:03:03] <sgorilla78> isnt it simple to just delete the cookie?
[03:05:41] <asmodai> sgorilla78: I encountered that in the past as well :(
[03:06:29] <sgorilla78> thats kind of a blocker for me if multiple people are going to be using it
[03:06:42] <sgorilla78> but i think its just a problem with the tracd
[03:10:02] <coderanger> sgorilla78: Cookies are easy to delete
[03:10:11] <asmodai> sgorilla78: erhm no
[03:10:16] <asmodai> sgorilla78: Since I don't use tracd
[03:10:19] <coderanger> All modern browsers cache HTTP auth credentials
[03:10:33] <coderanger> And with all of them the only way to clear that is to exit the browser
[03:10:57] <coderanger> So you are logged out of trac, but your browser "helpfully" logs you right back in
[03:11:01] <asmodai> coderanger: all modern broswers have no problem with logging out from fora and the likes. Different auth methods?
[03:11:18] * converter has joined #trac
[03:11:27] <coderanger> Are those using HTTP-based auth?
[03:13:09] <asmodai> I think they in general use a table for users.
[03:13:28] <asmodai> Personally the http auth is a bit annoying :P
[03:14:08] <coderanger> So don't use it :P
[03:14:12] <asmodai> But then we get back to the discussion I pointed out in the past: whether trac is being too simplistic and whether that's a good or bad thing.
[03:14:19] <coderanger> There are many alternative login plugins :)
[03:14:46] <asmodai> I don't like overburdening the system with plugins. Just like firefox' extensions they're getting on my nerves in terms of maintenance. :S
[03:14:51] <coderanger> For your average company or big project, they will already have Apache setup to auth to their system
[03:15:05] <coderanger> So it easier to cut-n-paste that
[03:15:22] <asmodai> None of my setups here have that. They use user tables.
[03:15:26] <coderanger> than to make trac support the insane number of authentication systems out there
[03:16:14] <asmodai> Also, people might want to use another browser than Apache, then what? :)
[03:18:25] <coderanger> HTTP auth has been a standard for 20 years, I doubt there is a single HTTP server that doesn't support it
[03:18:51] <asmodai> Still doesn't mean it is elegant. :P
[03:19:07] <coderanger> Its the only reliable lowest-common-denominator
[03:20:03] <asmodai> I'd rate it on the same level as a table in the database and presending a login page or however you want to implement it.
[03:21:44] <coderanger> I would say its a safe bet that most users want Trac and subversion to authenticate from the same place
[03:21:58] <coderanger> a simple DB system won't do that out of the box
[03:22:24] <asmodai> That's assuming people are using the same mechanisms for authentication, of course.
[03:23:40] <asmodai> ;)
[03:24:04] <coderanger> Doesn't need to be the same method, but I think its reliable that people want a 1-to-1 link between subversion accounts and Trac accounts
[03:24:49] <asmodai> Sure, but then again, I use ssh accounts and a svnserve password file
[03:24:54] <asmodai> can't use either for trac
[03:24:59] <coderanger> Sure you can
[03:25:10] <coderanger> I use mod_auth_pam with Apache at work
[03:25:25] <asmodai> That's assuming I am running apache and mod_auth_pam :)
[03:25:33] * asmodai points to lighttpd as an apache replacement.
[03:26:03] <coderanger> You can make a plugin to do it too, I'm just lazy and this was easy
[03:26:16] <asmodai> But then you're back to the plugin arch. :)
[03:26:22] <asmodai> arc even
[03:26:29] <asmodai> Anyway.
[03:26:44] <coderanger> Its not my fault that lighty has bad module support ;-)
[03:26:46] <asmodai> I still have mixed thoughts about the minimalistic approach.
[03:27:29] * coderanger -> Sleep
[03:27:32] <asmodai> coderanger: Mmm, I wouldn't call it bad. Also, a conscious choice can also lead to not wanting to hook all kinds of security/authentication willy-nilly. It can increase attack vectors.
[03:28:06] <asmodai> sleep well :)
[03:28:42] <coderanger> :)
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[04:31:16] <asmodai> cmlenz: dude?
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[04:41:56] <asmodai> cmlenz: genshi equivalent to ?cs name ?
[04:42:15] <jave> wow, 010 released?
[04:42:44] <asmodai> jave: jups :)
[04:44:31] <jave> wow, soo many new features...
[04:53:02] <asmodai> :)
[04:53:04] <asmodai> Time to play eh?
[04:54:44] <jave> it has lots of interesting stuff, like the wsgi interface, so the xmlrpc interface can work
[04:54:53] <jave> and switchable backends, and db:s
[04:54:57] <cmlenz> asmodai: there's no equivalent, nor should it be needed
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[04:56:36] <asmodai> cmlenz: mmm
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[04:56:50] <asmodai> cmlenz: example from ticketdelete: id="checkbox_<?cs name:change ?>"
[04:57:16] <cmlenz> can you pastebin with more context
[04:57:18] <jave> we use harvest+testtrack at work. the dream would be to get rid of those. I already use trac for personal projects
[04:57:18] <cmlenz> ?
[04:57:33] <