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November 05, 2006

[00:05:29] <matt_good> asmodai: nice, I was thinking about a tutorial myself, after seeing one of the Kid developers lamenting the lack of Kid and Genshi tutorials
[00:05:47] <asmodai> matt_good: still expanding, need to be way more verbose
[00:06:15] <matt_good> asmodai: well, I'm too tired and drunk to review it tonight, but I'll check again in the morning
[00:06:19] <matt_good> :)
[00:06:22] <asmodai> Gives me a good opportunity to become acquainted with it all. ;)
[00:06:58] <matt_good> later all
[00:07:08] * matt_good is away: zzzzzzzzz
[00:08:51] * aceat644 has quit IRC
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[00:32:46] <asmodai> At least he doesn't commit drunk ;)
[00:37:44] <coderanger> jonas probably has some networked breathalyzers
[00:39:15] <asmodai> rofl
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[01:11:44] * Madeye has joined #trac
[01:11:59] <Madeye> what permission shall i give to trac.db
[01:12:09] <Madeye> PythonHandler trac.ModPythonHandler: EnvironmentError: The web server user requires read _and_ write permission\nto the database /var/trac-projects/tan/db/trac.db and the directory this file is located in
[01:13:55] <coderanger> Madeye: Depends on what user your server runs as
[01:14:38] <Madeye> coderanger, other tracs that runs fine on the server has -rwxrwx--- but I honestly don't know how to convert this into numerical heh
[01:15:09] <coderanger> 770
[01:18:33] <Madeye> thank you coderanger :-)
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[01:52:37] <alect> evening
[01:53:08] <coderanger> alect: It looks like something weird is going on with trac-hacks
[01:53:14] <alect> whassat?
[01:53:33] <coderanger> Something was taking up about a gig of HD space and then removing it
[01:53:44] <alect> hmm
[01:53:49] <coderanger> I nuked the trac logfile, which cleared up 2.5G
[01:54:05] <coderanger> but before that / was full
[01:54:15] <alect> hmm that's not good
[01:54:44] <coderanger> maybe its some kind of scripted backup?
[01:54:52] <alect> backups run once a day
[01:55:24] <coderanger> perhaps its in between the copy and when the tar/gzip finishes?
[01:55:34] <alect> it backs up using rsync
[01:55:44] <coderanger> hmm
[01:56:59] <alect> what time did it occur?
[01:57:18] <alect> i'll bounce the vserver
[01:57:32] <alect> to clear up any problems caused by running out of space
[01:58:24] * m_g has joined #trac
[01:58:38] <alect> that would explain why exim was not running
[01:59:17] <coderanger> 8:46 PM US EST
[02:00:30] <coderanger> cboos mentioned he had seen something similar a few days ago
[02:01:12] <coderanger> but by the time I saw his message what ever it was had passed (and there was a gig or so free)
[02:05:16] <alect> hmm, i restart spamd every hour at 33 minutes past
[02:10:02] <coderanger> I would think that would take up a lot of HD space though
[02:10:06] <coderanger> er, wouldn't
[02:10:15] <alect> nor i
[02:10:40] <coderanger> I pushed the trac log back to WARN, so that should keep that from growing too quickly
[02:10:56] <coderanger> do you have logrotate installed?
[02:11:33] <coderanger> that apache logs are at 2G total
[02:11:53] <alect> nah, put tracd back to DEBUG
[02:12:00] <alect> that log hasn't been rolled since i started th :)
[02:12:06] <alect> it won't grow that quickly
[02:12:10] <coderanger> heh, okay
[02:12:32] <alect> i don't roll the apache logs
[02:12:36] <alect> i keep them for stats
[02:12:43] <alect> if it gets low again i'll just extend the lv
[02:12:49] <coderanger> ahh, okay
[02:13:24] <alect> screw it, i just added another 5g
[02:13:26] <alect> disk is cheap
[02:13:42] <coderanger> thats my general opinion these days
[02:14:47] <coderanger> Do you have any kind of service monitoring on there?
[02:15:40] <alect> no
[02:16:24] <coderanger> probably more trouble than its worth for one machine anyway
[02:16:43] <coderanger> *grumble*nagios*grumble*
[02:16:43] <alect> yeah
[02:16:50] * elmargol has joined #trac
[02:17:05] <alect> i was surprised actually. i did a search for a nice simple service monitoring system
[02:17:08] <alect> couldn't find squat
[02:17:12] <jborg> I've just set-up http latency monitoring for t.e.o, I can add trac-hacks if you like
[02:17:17] <elmargol> Hi are you sure that the config for lighttpd on http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracFastCgi is correct? I get syntax errors :(
[02:17:27] <alect> jborg: that would be great, thanks
[02:17:41] <coderanger> alect: This is why my SoC proposal was to make exactly that
[02:17:44] <elmargol> (configfile.c.805) source: /etc/lighttpd/lighttpd.conf line: 173 pos: 1 parser failed somehow near here: (EOL)
[02:19:06] <coderanger> elmargol: What is at line 173?
[02:19:07] <jborg> alect, http://wasabi.bengburken.net/cgi-bin/smokeping.cgi?target=http.trachacks
[02:19:22] <jborg> alect, I can have it send you email alerts if you like as well.
[02:19:37] <elmargol> coderanger: a )
[02:19:44] <alect> that would be good... alec.thomas@gmail.com is probably best
[02:19:54] <alect> given that alec@swapoff.org is on the same machine as trac-hacks :)
[02:20:07] <alect> thanks
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[02:20:35] <alect> what's the failure threshold for alert mails?
[02:21:33] <alect> maybe mail coderanger as well
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[02:22:01] <jborg> I've set the probe timeout to 10 seconds. (The default was 1 second which was too low)
[02:22:15] <coderanger> kantrn@rpi.edu for me, that gets checked the most frequently
[02:22:41] <jborg> coderanger, ok, I'll enable the alerts as soon as I know it's actually working.
[02:23:11] <coderanger> jborg: Cool :)
[02:23:55] <coderanger> My RSS reader shows alerts when the server is down, but that only runs every 30 minutes I think
[02:25:53] <jborg> is it down right now, or just extremely slow?
[02:26:15] <coderanger> I can get to it
[02:26:25] <alect> works for me. is slow though
[02:26:41] <alect> something is hitting it quite hard
[02:26:50] <elmargol> coderanger: http://www.ubuntuusers.de/paste/4927/
[02:26:55] <alect> (trac)
[02:28:31] <elmargol> ?
[02:28:48] <coderanger> elmargol: Looks okay to me, but I don't know lighty very well
[02:33:30] <coderanger> elmargol: Maybe something in one of the include_shells?
[02:34:59] <coderanger> alect: It looks like most of the traffic is still bots spidering the browser
[02:37:23] <elmargol> solved
[02:37:37] <coderanger> elmargol: hmm?
[02:38:27] <elmargol> there was allready a fastcgi.server on a include_shell
[02:39:00] <coderanger> heh
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[03:39:58] <coderanger> good interface design is really hard
[03:40:57] <coderanger> Any del.icio.us users on here?
[04:02:31] * TobiasFar has joined #trac
[04:06:15] <TobiasFar> I tried to run trac-admin but i got the following error: ImportError: No module named pkg_resources
[04:06:25] <TobiasFar> where do i get that module?
[04:06:47] <coderanger> setuptools
[04:07:07] <coderanger> Are you running trunk?
[04:07:26] <TobiasFar> yeah..because i have python 2.5
[04:07:36] <TobiasFar> and clearsilver didn't want to build here
[04:07:53] <coderanger> Yeah, setuptools is no longer optional
[04:08:20] <TobiasFar> ahh..okay
[04:08:22] <coderanger> on 0.10 it is only needed for plugins
[04:08:30] <TobiasFar> i'm new to trac
[04:08:49] <coderanger> Running trunk may not be in your best interest then
[04:09:00] <coderanger> Its pretty stable, but its still under active development
[04:13:54] <coderanger> also I don't think any plugins have been ported to Genshi yet
[04:21:38] * ^aristotle has joined #trac
[04:22:37] <^aristotle> anyone tell me what the recommended way is to install 0.10 on a debian sarge box?
[04:23:20] <^aristotle> (preferrably without pinning; ideally there's a deb repo with a backport somewhere?)
[04:24:57] <coderanger> http://trac.edgewall.org/browser/branches/debian-dev/backport-sarge
[04:24:58] <coderanger> ;-)
[04:25:04] <^aristotle> I saw that
[04:25:11] <^aristotle> how do I make it into a package?
[04:25:25] <^aristotle> (pointer to somewhere specific in a debian doc would be enough)
[04:25:36] <coderanger> Not a clue
[04:25:54] <^aristotle> :/
[04:26:42] <coderanger> I havne't touched apt-based systems in a while
[04:27:32] <cmlenz> ^aristotle: ping mooch, he's one of the package maintainers (IIRC)
[04:28:23] <nextime> apt-get install devscripts pbuilder, checkout source code of trac, checkout backport-sarge/debian and put inside the debian dir, run debuild and you have your .deb packages
[04:28:39] <^aristotle> nextime: thx!
[04:30:17] <gordonjcp> is there a macro for inserting the time of an edit into a wiki page?
[04:32:23] <TobiasFar> coderanger: heh...but the older version don't work
[04:32:31] <coderanger> gordonjcp: Wikinfo on t-h
[04:32:49] <coderanger> TobiasFar: You probably need at least 0.6
[04:34:01] <gordonjcp> coderanger: I don't understand "t-h"
[04:34:08] <coderanger> gordonjcp: trac-hacks
[04:34:16] <TobiasFar> it still sais: TracError: ClearSilver not installed (No module named neo_cgi)
[04:34:27] <TobiasFar> i even don't want to use clearsilver
[04:34:40] <coderanger> TobiasFar: Do you have any plugins installed?
[04:35:03] <TobiasFar> afaik not...just the standard from trac trunc
[04:35:20] <coderanger> cmlenz would probably know more than I at this point
[04:35:42] <gordonjcp> coderanger: thanks
[04:37:30] <gordonjcp> coderanger: ah, I've worked out that this is not actually what I thought I meant
[04:37:40] <coderanger> ?
[04:37:49] <gordonjcp> I think I need a coffee
[04:38:03] <coderanger> I think I need a sleep
[04:38:20] <coderanger> too bad I have another 10 pages of prolog tutorial to get through :-/
[04:38:50] <gordonjcp> I'm trying to work out if I can have a kind of an "updated" macro that I can stick at the top of an edit
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[04:39:30] <gordonjcp> so that if I add a paragraph, it will have something like "created at: <blah>", with the real time that the change was made
[04:39:33] <coderanger> how is that different than the timestamp of the last change?
[04:39:36] <gordonjcp> but I can see that's not sensible or possible
[04:39:50] <gordonjcp> coderanger: 'cos it would change for all timestamps
[04:40:10] <gordonjcp> essentially I'm trying to reinvent a blog, badly
[04:40:19] <coderanger> wikinfo is specific to each page
[04:40:31] <coderanger> and there is also a blogging plugin for trac
[04:40:33] <gordonjcp> no, I've sussed out that I'm going about it the wrong way
[04:40:36] <gordonjcp> ah, is there
[04:40:44] <coderanger> tracblog, also on trac-hacks
[04:40:50] <gordonjcp> that might very well be the kiddie
[04:41:24] <gordonjcp> http://www.nekosynth.co.uk <- in case anyone is interested
[04:42:18] <coderanger> Look at the front page of trac-hacks
[04:42:25] <gordonjcp> I'm reading trac-hacks
[04:42:26] <coderanger> is that green box what you are talking about?
[04:42:29] <gordonjcp> how the hell did I miss that
[04:43:00] <gordonjcp> like, how did I miss trac-hacks in general?
[04:43:04] <coderanger> if so, you want tracblog and newsflash
[04:43:08] <coderanger> heh, its good stuff :)
[04:43:12] <gordonjcp> yes, the green box looks like the kind of thing
[04:55:52] <^aristotle> nextime: what do I do here?
[04:55:53] <^aristotle> chmod: cannot access `debian/trac/usr/share/python-support/trac/trac/test.py': No such file or directory
[04:55:57] <^aristotle> make: *** [binary-post-install/trac] Error 1
[04:56:25] <^aristotle> there is a `debian/trac/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/trac/test.py`
[04:56:43] <^aristotle> but I have no idea if that's what it's looking for
[04:58:43] <^aristotle> n/m, the answer is check the right stuff out of /tags/debian-dev/ instead of /branches/debian-dev@HEAD
[04:59:04] <^aristotle> err, no, it's not, same error
[04:59:19] <^aristotle> same prob?
[05:00:28] <coderanger> ^aristotle: You may want to ask the ML, someone has probably built these packages already
[05:00:51] <^aristotle> ML? mailing list?
[05:00:56] <coderanger> yeah
[05:01:04] <coderanger> trac-users on google groups
[05:01:38] <^aristotle> k
[05:10:41] <TobiasFar> where do i get webadmin-genshi from?
[05:10:52] <coderanger> It has been merged into Trac
[05:11:02] <TobiasFar> ahh
[05:17:24] <^aristotle> is it possible to join the list without a google account?
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[08:59:32] <Rica> Users on my Trac are Unix users, PAM auths works correctly, I would like to be able to let non Unix users to register with Account Manager Plugin, is there an issue/conflict with the unix users ?
[09:07:43] * joab has joined #trac
[09:08:08] <joab> i'm trying to install trac through webapp-config but it doesn't create any directories... what gives?
[09:08:58] <joab> webapp-config -I -s lighttpd -h my.vhost.com -d mydir trac 0.9.6
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[09:59:57] <matt_good> Rica: well, you'd need some way to cascade the 2 authentication methods, which I'm not sure how you'd set that up
[10:01:37] <Rica> aye.. will investigate that.
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[10:36:01] <asmodai> matt_good: Feel good? :)
[10:38:08] <matt_good> asmodai: yup, though I should probably grab some lunch
[10:39:28] <asmodai> matt_good: d 'ya glance over that URL by chance?
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[10:51:30] <matt_good> asmodai: I just read through it
[10:52:12] <asmodai> matt_good: Still needs better structering later on
[10:52:29] <asmodai> matt_good: but, thing the basis is good and how to approach it?
[10:52:54] <asmodai> think
[10:53:30] <matt_good> the WSGI stuff seems like a decent framework-neutral way
[10:54:10] <matt_good> though it may need a little explanation for users who don't know WSGI
[10:55:16] <matt_good> I'd also leave out the stuff about CGI, and the mention of the text/html mimetype for XHTML, since it may confuse some users
[10:56:52] <matt_good> asmodai: oh, your last example has an extra definition of "template = " which you could remove
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[11:03:49] <asmodai> matt_good: okies
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[13:22:54] <bitsweat> in an attempt to deal with spam on a large public trac, we set up the spam filter, but it was a losing battle. so we went to loginmanager and now spammers are autocreating logins then spamming. argh. is there a better way? perhaps moderated logins or spam-filtering logged-in users also?
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[13:28:30] <matt_good> bitsweat: yes, if you've enabled registration you'll probably want to set [spam-filter] trust_authenticated = false in your trac.ini
[13:28:46] <matt_good> also, try the Baysian filter in the recently updated SpamFilter
[13:29:29] <bitsweat> tossing a ton of common chinese characters in BadContent really helped. I'll look at updating SpamFilter
[13:29:39] <bitsweat> thanks for the spam filter setting! I can't believe I hadn't seen it.
[13:34:16] <matt_good> the Bayes filter has been very effective on the Edgewall site
[13:34:39] <matt_good> I don't think we've seen any spam get through after it had some training, and I've seen no false-positives either
[13:36:37] <matt_good> biab
[13:36:41] <exarkun> How long before spammers start including large chunks of content from the trac site they're spamming in their spam?
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[13:45:05] <jnoon> im proxying https -> tracd on 8000 that serves multiple projects... ive set base_url = https://trac/projectname in each trac projects trac.ini. a lot of stuff adheres to the base_url, but creating a ticket, closing a ticket, etc, tries to go to http:// ... anyone know what else i may need to set?
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[14:04:07] <coderanger> cmlenz: RSS feeds from the timeline on t.e.o are grumpy
[14:04:20] <cmlenz> grumpy?
[14:04:34] <coderanger> I think they are being sent as a blank page
[14:05:04] <coderanger> Unless they are just somehow invalid and my feed reader and browser won't display them
[14:06:49] * m_g has quit IRC
[14:06:52] <cmlenz> hmm, the xml decl is bad
[14:07:40] <cmlenz> ah, I think I know what that's about
[14:08:15] <cmlenz> jborg: this is due to the csrf patch... it shouldn't even run on non-HTML output, ideally
[14:08:42] <cmlenz> jborg: in any case, the XML decl of the RSS feeds includes a duplicate "?"
[14:08:56] <cmlenz> i.e. it's <?xml version="1.0"??>
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[14:14:19] <jborg> oh, crap
[14:15:56] <cmlenz> should we pass the content_type to HDFWrapper.render() as keyword argument?
[14:17:01] <cmlenz> or simply not pass form_token for non-HTML output
[14:18:15] <jborg> or just fix the typo in handle_pi() :)
[14:19:42] <jborg> See the note on handle_pi: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-HTMLParser.html#l2h-1657
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[14:20:43] <jborg> but I agree, there is no point in running the FormTokenInjector on non-html content types
[14:21:04] <jborg> but I'm not sure it's worth the risk of breaking something
[14:22:19] <coderanger> jborg: Perhaps have an explicit whitelist of content-types?
[14:24:47] <jborg> coderanger, perhaps, but since this is a 0.9-only change the current solution is probably good enough (as long as the performance penalty isn't too high)
[14:25:02] <jborg> coderanger, can you check if the rss feeds work better now?
[14:25:54] <bakasan> not to interrupt, but what would be the most reccomended linux flavor for trac?
[14:27:30] <coderanger> jborg: Still triggering errors in my feed reader
[14:27:37] <coderanger> and won't render in shiira
[14:28:24] <jborg> yeah, doesn't work with firefox either :(
[14:28:44] <coderanger> rendering in safari though
[14:28:46] <jborg> but I can't spot anything obvious.
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[14:31:14] <coderanger> no i
[14:31:18] <coderanger> bakasan: Any
[14:31:28] <coderanger> bakasan: Gentoo has packages in the tree for 0.10
[14:32:00] <cmlenz> jborg: pubDate vs pubdate
[14:32:02] <cmlenz> (case)
[14:32:07] <coderanger> bakasan: Debian has been lagging behind in versions
[14:32:34] <bakasan> ahh thanks
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[14:32:58] <cmlenz> jborg: it's correct in the template, so maybe HTMLParser is messing it up?
[14:33:04] <bakasan> gentoo it is then :D
[14:33:20] <jborg> cmlenz, oh, that sucks.
[14:33:21] <coderanger> bakasan: Installing Gentoo isn't for the weak at heart :P
[14:33:31] <bakasan> lol
[14:33:33] <coderanger> bakasan: There is a vmware image for Trac+Subversion out there
[14:33:42] <coderanger> if you just want a simple setup
[14:33:48] <bakasan> wow
[14:33:52] <cmlenz> jborg: it's no problem with HTML, but I'd prefer we didn't touch other kinds of output
[14:33:52] <bakasan> that could be cool
[14:33:59] <coderanger> bakasan: Search for "vmTrac"
[14:34:04] <bakasan> kk :D
[14:35:06] <jborg> cmlenz, yeah, but the parser claims to support XHTML
[14:35:20] * cmlenz pasted http://pastie.textmate.org/21343
[14:35:35] <bakasan> thanks alot for the tip
[14:35:53] <coderanger> jborg: The probably want to protect against <BR> and whatnot
[14:36:08] <cmlenz> well, I guess it can parse XHTML as HTML (as browsers do), but that doesn't mean it does the exactly right thing for XML in general
[14:36:59] <jborg> cmlenz, that looks safe enough, let's go with that
[14:37:49] <coderanger> cmlenz: Maybe the timeline should explicitly run the injector on its HTML content before formatting as RSS then?
[14:39:10] <cmlenz> there shouldn't be any post forms in the timeline HTML
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[14:47:36] <bitsweat> exarkun: what do you mean by spammers including chunks of content from the site in their spam?
[14:47:39] <jborg> cmlenz, are you going to commit that, or should I?
[14:47:59] <bitsweat> exarkun: so they can circumvent the bayesian filter?
[14:48:34] <bitsweat> I just wish I could kill a spammer-user and have Trac annihilate all changes that user ever made all in one blow.
[14:48:51] <exarkun> bitsweat: yes, that.
[14:48:59] <bitsweat> Cleaning up after these folks is extremely painful.
[14:49:14] <exarkun> I haven't gotten spammed in a while for some reason.
[14:49:24] <exarkun> The last few times I did I just did a DELETE manually, though.
[14:51:02] <bitsweat> We're getting spammed registrations as well, folks hitting the register url with all manner of crap in the username.
[14:51:23] <bitsweat> Looks like they're trying to insert js to get privs of the user viewing /admin
[14:51:34] <coderanger> bitsweat: You can try using the captcha plugin
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[14:56:16] <bitsweat> interesting, looks like a pretty user-friendly implementation too
[14:56:40] <coderanger> It seems to work pretty well
[14:57:00] <coderanger> [insert obvious disclaimer about accessibility problems]
[14:57:55] <bitsweat> our biggest prob is folks registering by hand then firing off a zillion comment spams, but spam-filter trust-authenticated = false should alleviate that
[14:58:22] <coderanger> Yeah, thats one of the situations that isn't well addressed by current systems
[14:58:27] <bitsweat> thanks for the suggestion. I wish my Trac concerns were more feature-oriented than focused on spam battle :(
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[14:58:43] <coderanger> I really need to package up my moderated login system
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[14:59:18] <coderanger> if you are comfortable hacking on it, I can give you the code, but its currently got a lot of specific stuff for the site I made it for
[15:00:34] <coderanger> (the core logic of moderated signups should be pretty easy to copy out though)
[15:00:35] <bitsweat> I'm not, unfortunately. What's worse is that I have to relay all this config info and plugin requests through an unattentive sysadmin :/
[15:00:53] <coderanger> webadmin and iniadmin?
[15:01:17] <coderanger> There isn't much of trac that can't be configured from the web once WebAdmin is installed
[15:01:28] <bitsweat> aha :) yes I can do that, but I'm on mod_python so I believe I need an apache restart on ini changes?
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[15:01:45] <sanmarcos> how do I insert HTML in a wiki page?
[15:02:08] <bitsweat> I installed webadmin before he yanked root access again :p just for this sort of scenario
[15:02:13] <coderanger> sanmarcos: the 'html' processor
[15:02:22] <sanmarcos> what is a processor?
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[15:02:25] <sanmarcos> can you give me an example?
[15:02:33] <coderanger> bitsweat: ini changes no, plugin changes yes
[15:02:57] <coderanger> sanmarcos: {{{\n#!html\n<h1>This is html</h1>\n}}}
[15:03:10] <sanmarcos> thank you
[15:03:30] <coderanger> bitsweat: Alec has a plugin that will restart Apache from the web, you can bug him to make it public
[15:03:41] <coderanger> sanmarcos: Note that the content is sanitized
[15:03:47] <bitsweat> bah, no iniadmin
[15:03:55] <coderanger> ?
[15:03:59] <sanmarcos> coderanger: sanitized?
[15:04:14] <coderanger> sanmarcos: You cannot include dangerous tags or attributes
[15:04:42] <sanmarcos> such as? I just want to add a <form> <input <img, for a paypal doante button
[15:04:53] <coderanger> that should work fine
[15:05:06] <sanmarcos> thank you
[15:05:11] <exarkun> make sure no one else can edit that wiki page
[15:05:17] <coderanger> just not <script> or <applet>
[15:05:24] <bitsweat> I don't have iniadmin plugin, so install via webadmin would need apache restart. ah well, hmm..
[15:05:46] <coderanger> bitsweat: do you have any shell access?
[15:05:49] <sanmarcos> does this work in trac 0.9.3 ?
[15:06:01] <coderanger> mod_python just needs a SIGHUP to clear the code cache
[15:06:05] <coderanger> sanmarcos: Yes
[15:06:17] <sanmarcos> {{{\n#!html\n<form is right?
[15:06:23] <sanmarcos> do I need to enable any settings?
[15:06:29] <bitsweat> coderanger: nope, sysadmin doesn't like folks logging in. absurd :p
[15:06:37] <coderanger> those aren't literal '\n's right?
[15:06:46] <coderanger> bitsweat: Ouch
[15:07:04] <sanmarcos> oh okay, you meant them as not literal
[15:07:14] <coderanger> No, \n is a newline
[15:08:54] <coderanger> bitsweat: Apache will normally kill and restart workers after a few thousand requests, so just keep hitting reload ;-)
[15:09:30] <alect> morning traccers
[15:09:53] <coderanger> g'morn
[15:10:10] <alect> you get all those alert mails?
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