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November 28, 2006

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[00:07:05] <otaku42> moin
[00:11:24] <myouko> good day, is there somewhere I can read about the new workflow engine that is under development?
[00:11:40] <coderanger> @wiki WorkFlow
[00:11:41] <evil_twin> coderanger: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/WorkFlow
[00:11:53] <myouko> thanks a lot
[00:21:06] <myouko> is there any estimation when the version with the new workflow will be released?
[00:22:06] <coderanger> I think they were hoping to merge it as part of 0.11
[00:22:13] <coderanger> which should be released early next year
[00:24:01] <myouko> Ok, I see. I have not much experience with trac, only used it a little on small projects. How do upgrades work from older versions work? seamless or is it problematic?
[00:25:31] <coderanger> install the new code
[00:25:37] <coderanger> trac-admin /path/to/env upgrade
[00:26:04] <coderanger> 0.8 -> 0.9 needs some adjustment of server config if you are using mod_python
[00:26:15] <coderanger> thats about it
[00:27:41] <pacopablo> night all
[00:27:59] <myouko> gnight
[00:36:05] <asmodai> and back
[00:36:13] <asmodai> coderanger: GO PROSE!
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[00:36:34] <asmodai> oww, Univ of Utreg ;)
[00:42:26] <coderanger> asmodai: You can only read so many medical reports before they all start to blur together
[00:42:34] <asmodai> coderanger: I know
[00:42:44] <asmodai> coderanger: I administer the library's electronic publishing server and software
[00:42:48] <asmodai> coderanger: we also have a medical faculty
[00:42:54] <asmodai> coderanger: now put those together
[00:43:07] <coderanger> wikipedia ftw!
[00:43:15] <coderanger> the lazy way to do research
[00:43:37] <asmodai> coderanger: Sure, but you need to double check Wikipedia's facts
[00:44:11] <coderanger> bah, why wouldn't I trust something written by a random teenager
[00:44:16] <killing-joke> asmodai: that's for sure.
[00:44:31] <asmodai> coderanger: You forgot the angst part ;)
[00:44:40] <asmodai> killing-joke: It's nice to kick start something though.
[00:45:00] <coderanger> wikis are a nice idea, but hard to pull off in practice
[00:45:22] <asmodai> I find a shitload of linguistics information and asian history I cannot find elsewhere. In the same stretch of vein, it doesn't always have the right local names, although it certainly provides a decent l10n/i18n infrastructure.
[00:45:29] <coderanger> (wikis for encylopedia type things that is)
[00:45:29] <asmodai> coderanger: I like wikis as multi-user notepad
[00:45:55] <asmodai> coderanger: other than that, no. No documentation. I prefer DocBook or LaTeX for my documentation and then generate PDF or so.
[00:45:56] <killing-joke> they would work fine, if there were only a super-duper subject matter expert to audit pages as they grew.
[00:46:03] <asmodai> killing-joke: True.
[00:46:21] <asmodai> Isn't that what that new project is aiming ay?
[00:46:22] <asmodai> at
[00:46:36] <coderanger> asmodai: Trac + CombineWiki has been working pretty well for us so far
[00:46:39] <killing-joke> but if the world was full of super-duper subject matter experts, then they should just blog their expertise.
[00:46:52] <asmodai> http://www.citizendium.org/
[00:47:07] <killing-joke> the reality is somewhat less encouraging. :)
[00:47:27] <coderanger> asmodai: Thats what Nupedia was supposed to be originally
[00:47:33] <coderanger> and we all know how well that worked
[00:47:36] <asmodai> coderanger: oh ok
[00:47:50] <asmodai> coderanger: Nope, don't know about Nupedia save reading the name somewhere.
[00:48:11] <coderanger> asmodai: It was founded at the same time as wikipedia
[00:48:21] <coderanger> it was the expert edited side
[00:48:39] <coderanger> wikipedia was supposed to serve as a staging ground for new nupedia articles
[00:49:05] <coderanger> as the wikipedia article got half decent, someone would edit it and transfer it to nupedia
[00:49:10] <killing-joke> if buildings were built the same way that the wikipedia is built, then we would be asking every citizen to carry a few bricks or nails in their pocket, and to please place a few of the strategically when you feel the time is right.
[00:49:22] <asmodai> killing-joke: lol
[00:49:32] <killing-joke> the result is typically a heap :/
[00:49:53] <coderanger> its the same problem faced by any community-directed project
[00:50:02] <killing-joke> coderanger: yes
[00:50:12] <asmodai> heh
[00:50:23] <asmodai> Is that why no-one is reacting on the -dev list to certain topics? ;)
[00:50:25] <killing-joke> "all you guys -- can you help me push my car to the gas station?"
[00:51:01] <killing-joke> the gas station pushing works because the goal is large, obvious, and singular.
[00:51:18] <killing-joke> "all you guys -- can you help me build a gas station?"
[00:51:50] <asmodai> Try a bikeshed (peter principle and all that)
[00:52:07] <killing-joke> you end up in the morning with an anonymously contributed hydrogen-piping system.
[00:52:10] <killing-joke> that is incomplete.
[00:52:26] <asmodai> hahaha
[00:52:33] <asmodai> sure way to innovate
[00:52:43] <killing-joke> asmodai: very true
[00:54:49] <asmodai> anyway
[00:54:54] <asmodai> back to writing Genshi documentation
[00:57:55] <myouko> I tried to upgrade my trac running in a sandbox environment from 0.9.3 to 0.10.2. I installed the new code, upgraded the environment and restarted the server. Now i get an 500 internal server error. :/ Any hints? :p
[01:00:01] <myouko> when i look i the apache log i see a python traceback that says permission denied on my trac.log
[01:03:46] <myouko> problem solved (turned off logging to file)
[01:03:59] <coderanger> chown -R apache:apache /path/to/env
[01:04:18] <myouko> oh?
[01:06:49] <myouko> Ah, changing owner solved the problem i got after upgrade :D (the progressbars and other stuff was missing)
[01:07:14] * myouko is greatly thankful
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[02:21:34] <myouko> I get the "no changeset X in the repository" bug and sometimes problem with the timeline after upgrading to 0.10.2. Is there a fix for this soon?
[02:23:28] <misc> is there a bug report ?
[02:26:56] <myouko> yes
[02:29:52] <myouko> seems to be same as #4132
[02:31:52] <pampampamp> Patch attached in #4132 worked for me for this bug.. but using the svn 10.3 stable version works better
[02:32:21] <myouko> Ah, ok
[02:32:46] <myouko> you recommend that i try the svn 10.3 stable version?
[02:33:17] <pampampamp> I'm very happy with cboos proposition to install this one... much better than 10.2 (at least for me)
[02:33:40] <pampampamp> got around 90% less entry in trac.log ;)
[02:35:14] <pampampamp> http://trac.edgewall.org/svn/branches/0.10-stable
[02:35:56] <pampampamp> oups wrong link
[02:36:24] <pampampamp> http://svn.edgewall.org/repos/trac/branches/0.10-stable/
[02:55:06] <myouko> heh, thanks. I found it anyway :) Well, the problems i encountered seems to have been solved.
[02:55:09] <myouko> That's good
[02:56:10] <myouko> Now I have another question :) I have seen on trac's trac that they have text on the milestone views, but I have not found any way how to do that myself. Any ideas?
[03:07:46] <myouko> I found out :)
[03:07:57] <myouko> Needed the proper permissions
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[04:52:08] <tsb> Hrm, trac removes comments etc from the raw html in the wiki.. any way to keep it in?
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[05:49:47] <mnemoc> hi, the default report 1 includes on the select a changetime field, why isn't it displayed?
[05:51:42] <mnemoc> aha! the underscore
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[06:06:21] <dorileo> I got this error in trac`s log
[06:06:22] <dorileo> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position 29-32
[06:06:40] <dorileo> how could I change the charset configuration for notification?
[06:07:14] <dorileo> whould it be in mime_encoding parameter?
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[06:47:46] <milk-it> somebody knows because occurred this error in trac/db/util.py? ProgrammingError: could not convert UTF8 character 0x00e2 to ISO8859-1
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[07:06:47] <tsb> Not possible to quote multiple lines easily in the wiki? if I quote each like, it borks up formating stufff like the lists
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[07:32:00] <PlasmaHH> hi, with navadd plugin its possible to add other entries to the navigation... but is it somewho possible to move existing entries into a sublisting under some other field?
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[08:02:33] <exarkun> What's the equivalent of site_footer.cs w/ genshi?
[08:06:39] <exarkun> Agggggg
[08:06:42] <exarkun> genshi template caching is broken
[08:06:53] <exarkun> good job guys
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[08:14:02] <mooch> how can i make the date rows on a report to user DD/MM/YY instead of MM/DD/YY ?
[08:14:19] <prologic> hehe
[08:14:26] <prologic> I want them to appear as YYYY-MM-DD :)
[08:14:32] <prologic> I can't figure out how though (haven't yet)
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[08:22:00] <mooch> prologic: or whatever... but i want to change them
[08:22:14] <prologic> heh
[08:22:18] <prologic> I have no idea
[08:22:24] <prologic> all I know is it's a local setting
[08:22:25] <prologic> afaik
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[08:59:11] <PlasmaHH> with navadd plugin its possible to add other entries to the navigation... but is it somewho possible to move existing entries into a sublisting under some other field?
[09:00:46] <coderanger> You mean NavMover?
[09:01:24] <PlasmaHH> well, as I get it that supports only reordering. I want some kind of display like http://www.projectiwear.org/download.php
[09:02:12] <coderanger> ahh, no you can't do that
[09:02:19] <PlasmaHH> :/
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[09:02:31] <PlasmaHH> it would just fit the design much better
[09:02:35] <pacopablo> morning
[09:02:55] <coderanger> its doable, I just don't know of any plugins that do it
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[09:03:26] <PlasmaHH> would it be doable as a plugin or only as a change of the trac code?
[09:03:59] <coderanger> it could be done as a plugin, it would just be "interesting"
[09:17:53] <pacopablo> boorad: you around?
[09:18:04] <boorad> yes sir
[09:18:15] <pacopablo> I think I'm finally hitting the postgers connection limit
[09:18:35] <boorad> pacopablo: ick
[09:18:39] <boorad> I'm not anymore
[09:18:44] <pacopablo> why?
[09:18:53] <boorad> well, let's see if we can pinpoint that
[09:18:53] <pacopablo> because you're restarting apache at a regular interval?
[09:19:05] <boorad> no, it doesn't seem to grow anymore
[09:19:12] <pacopablo> how many do you have?
[09:19:15] <boorad> 5
[09:19:15] <pacopablo> and what did you change?
[09:19:20] <boorad> that's harder
[09:19:34] <pacopablo> what's your configuration now?
[09:19:36] <boorad> I'm back on mod_python due to some coderanger help
[09:19:58] <pacopablo> hmm, well I switched to multiple tracds
[09:20:18] <pacopablo> when I was on mod_python, I noticed some leakage, but it never really grew too much, or at least too fast
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[09:20:37] <boorad> I believe before I was on 3.1.3 or 3.1.4 and now I'm on 3.2.10
[09:20:50] <boorad> and I read some of their changelogs of fixing leaks...
[09:21:07] <pacopablo> hmm, I'm on 3.2.10 also
[09:21:12] <boorad> I also got a bit better about caching my CentralEnvironment object
[09:21:18] <boorad> I'm not sure you'd have one of those
[09:21:20] <pacopablo> biggest issue there was that apache grew to enormous size
[09:21:41] <pacopablo> what's your CentralEnvironment?
[09:21:42] <boorad> but coderanger has controlled the memory usage w/ some httpd.conf settings, iirc
[09:22:01] <boorad> CentralEnvironment is for a TracForge-like plugin that I made a long time ago.
[09:22:02] <pacopablo> well, I've made a move to deprecate apache :)
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[09:22:06] <pacopablo> ahh
[09:22:19] <pacopablo> so I'm committed to finding the leaks ;)
[09:22:20] <boorad> you can share perms, userdir info
[09:22:28] <boorad> lighttpd?
[09:22:32] <pacopablo> nginx
[09:22:55] <boorad> gotcha - I'd like to move to Mango myself (written in D)
[09:23:19] <boorad> so does the level of connections ever level out, or does it continue to grow?
[09:23:30] <pacopablo> seems to grow
[09:23:31] <PlasmaHH> btw. anyone knows if with apaches SetHandler stuff its somehow possible to server a static file nevertheless? robots.txt in my case
[09:23:36] <pacopablo> last night had 63, now have 130
[09:23:51] <boorad> and have you tried to turn off pooling in postgres_backend.py (or whatever the filename is)
[09:24:03] <PlasmaHH> 130? o_O I have never more than 10 ...
[09:24:06] <pacopablo> no, I'll have to look into that
[09:24:27] <boorad> just change poolable = False and see if the connections grow
[09:24:35] <boorad> they should not, but it will be a bit slower
[09:25:10] <boorad> any custom plugins?
[09:25:12] <pacopablo> why would it be slower?
[09:25:32] <pacopablo> I'm using tracd, which is single threaded (more or less)
[09:25:43] <boorad> well, a bit slower, because for each request that uses multiple db cnx's, it'll get a new cnx from Postgres, not the Trac connection pool
[09:25:47] <pacopablo> hehe, yes, many custom plugins :)
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[09:25:59] <pacopablo> ahh, that's not so good
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[09:26:29] <boorad> I always thought that when this was happening to me, it was either Request object not being GC'd (or some object not being GC'd)
[09:26:30] <IamLordV1ldemort> How many custom plugins (that we use) could possibly need like custom db access requiring a separate dbcnx?
[09:26:38] <boorad> or it was env objects being cached
[09:27:17] <boorad> IamLordV1ldemort: I use a get_central_db_cnx() method when I need to tap into a central repos that serves like 80 Trac envs
[09:27:23] <pacopablo> IamLordV1ldemort: none, but if we turn poolable = false, then each get_dbcnx() call will return new conneciton
[09:27:32] <boorad> s/repos/db/
[09:28:09] <boorad> i.e. the data needed is not in the current trac-env
[09:28:45] <IamLordV1ldemort> It seems like the pooling should be fixed. Forgive me if I seem insulting - I don't mean to be.
[09:28:51] <IamLordV1ldemort> Is this problem that complex?
[09:28:54] <pacopablo> yes it should
[09:29:06] <pacopablo> but the issue is that we can't quite locate what is wrong
[09:29:12] <boorad> I've not found the issue yet
[09:29:13] <IamLordV1ldemort> Right now, I just wonder "What would Illias do?"
[09:29:18] <boorad> heh
[09:29:21] <pacopablo> roflol
[09:29:23] <IamLordV1ldemort> *lol(
[09:29:25] <IamLordV1ldemort> ok
[09:29:29] <IamLordV1ldemort> That was uncalled for, sorry.
[09:29:43] <boorad> he'd certainly have a link ready for review
[09:29:46] <IamLordV1ldemort> hahahaha
[09:29:51] <pacopablo> hehe
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[09:30:05] <coderanger_> /wiki/FixPoolingWorkingPlan
[09:30:06] <IamLordV1ldemort> Akismet Channel Filter might block the message though.
[09:30:08] <coderanger_> :P
[09:30:10] <IamLordV1ldemort> hahahah
[09:30:19] <boorad> teehee
[09:31:10] * boorad listens for the sound of 5 second refresh clicks on the IRC log page
[09:32:02] <boorad> pacopablo: I've imported gc module and done some testing, but could never find anything that wasn't GC'd.
[09:32:26] <boorad> I've attempted to use pgpool to do the pooling, instead of Trac, no help
[09:32:32] <pacopablo> hmm
[09:32:39] <pacopablo> well, I'll see what I can dig up
[09:32:43] <boorad> do you see connection <idle> or some such in your ps list?
[09:33:01] <boorad> as the connections gro?
[09:33:07] <boorad> ps -ef | grep postgres
[09:33:17] <pacopablo> oh yeah :)
[09:33:32] <boorad> are you on Gentoo?
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[09:33:53] <pacopablo> live ~ # ps afx | grep postgres | wc -l
[09:33:53] <pacopablo> 152
[09:33:57] <pacopablo> yummy ;)
[09:34:01] <boorad> eeesh
[09:34:16] <CosmicRay> is there any plugin that will verify a new user by sending them email with a cookie?
[09:34:18] <pacopablo> live ~ # ps afx | grep 'idle in transaction' | wc -l
[09:34:18] <pacopablo> 139
[09:34:23] <CosmicRay> I am quite concerned about spam
[09:34:31] <CosmicRay> the anti-spam features in trac seem to be very limited
[09:34:32] <pacopablo> a bit more realistic view about number of open connections
[09:34:48] <boorad> yeah, I have that wc -l part, too, in a batch file to check health - it's been saying 5 forever now, sorry.
[09:34:51] <CosmicRay> if I want to open up the wiki to contributions from anyone, it is trivial for spammers to access if I let users create an account
[09:34:57] <CosmicRay> which I would have to do, pretty much
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[09:35:03] <coderanger_> CosmicRay: No
[09:35:16] <coderanger_> No one has gotten around to writting it
[09:35:21] <pacopablo> boorad: thanks anyway, I'll get my hands dirty :)
[09:35:29] <CosmicRay> coderanger: isn't it a serious problem them?
[09:35:40] <coderanger_> You can steal some code of mine to do moderated signups. but thats about all I know of
[09:35:41] <boorad> pacopablo: np, send questions my way, I'll see if they ring any bells
[09:35:51] <CosmicRay> before I put captchas on my blog, I had hundreds of spams a day
[09:35:56] <coderanger_> CosmicRay: The latest spamfilter has been incredibly effective
[09:36:12] <CosmicRay> as far as I can tell, it isn't much good (from the description, ayway)
[09:36:18] <CosmicRay> is bayes really that effective these days?
[09:36:37] <coderanger_> trac-hacks gets maybe 1-3 spams a week
[09:36:47] <coderanger_> and thats without askimet or bayes
[09:36:47] <CosmicRay> coderanger: is that just because people don't know of trac?
[09:37:06] <CosmicRay> brb
[09:37:10] <coderanger_> CosmicRay: No, Trac is very well known by the spammers
[09:37:21] <coderanger_> and trac-hacks is one of the most popular sites
[09:38:15] <coderanger_> we have just recently begun to hear of spammers doing a signup and then setting a bot on the site
[09:38:23] <coderanger_> and I haven't heard of automated signups yet
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[09:49:02] <Guychi> Good evening.
[09:50:07] <Guychi> I can't figure out an apparently trivial thing: how can I get notifications for everything _except_ changes that _I_ make?
[09:50:29] <coderanger_> I don't think you can with the current notifications system
[09:50:38] <Guychi> :(
[09:50:44] <coderanger_> its still pretty all or nothing
[09:50:58] <coderanger_> You could make a custom notification plugin though
[09:51:09] <Guychi> suppose I combine it with gmail filtering, what criteria could I possibly use?
[09:51:18] <PlasmaHH> coderanger_: the robots.txt plugin is from you?
[09:51:24] <coderanger_> PlasmaHH: indeed
[09:52:05] <PlasmaHH> coderanger_: do you think it would be hard that it gets its contents not from a wiki page but from some actual robots.txt file somewhere? (of course all configurable from where it gets it)
[09:52:11] <coderanger_> Guychi:The string "Changes (by <username>)"
[09:52:21] <coderanger_> PlasmaHH: Probably not
[09:52:34] <coderanger_> That was mostly just a quick hack for someone who needed it
[09:54:45] <PlasmaHH> shall I create some enhancement ticket or will you keep it in mind?
[09:54:57] <coderanger_> make a ticket
[09:55:04] <coderanger_> my brain is very well shot lately
[09:55:21] <coderanger_> I'll see if I can get to it at some point, but no promises in the next two weeks
[09:59:09] <coderanger_> thanky
[10:04:01] <CosmicRay> back
[10:04:36] <Guychi> from:(trac@localhost) (("Reporter: admin" -Changes) OR "Changes (by admin)")
[10:04:47] <Guychi> ^^ keep it for your records :)
[10:05:26] <coderanger_> Throw it up on the wiki
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[10:10:25] <Guychi> done
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[10:21:52] <CosmicRay> coderanger: so your experience is that spammers don't bother to create an account, even though that can happen automatically?
[10:22:25] <coderanger_> So far, yes
[10:22:30] <coderanger_> I am sure they will at some point
[10:22:36] <coderanger_> we just have to stay one step ahead
[10:23:20] <CosmicRay> I am also wondering about the settings -- the email address seems to not be tied to the account.
[10:23:24] <CosmicRay> why is that and how does it work?
[10:25:06] <coderanger_> It is, it goes into the session table
[10:38:22] <myouko> Hi again
[10:39:12] <myouko> are there any plans to implement a graphical historyview in trac?
[10:39:19] <coderanger_> what do you mean?
[10:39:30] <myouko> asking me what I mean? :)
[10:39:39] <pacopablo> hmm, well, I think part of the issue with connection leaks is Environments not getting nuked properly
[10:39:58] <coderanger_> myouko: Indeed
[10:40:28] <pacopablo> when I use tracd with -e and got to the project listing page, the number of connections in the idle state jump by the number of trac envs I have :)
[10:41:03] <myouko> ok coderanger_, let's see... A view where you can see the relationship of all the revisions of a single file, presented by boxes and lines
[10:41:37] <coderanger_> myouko: You can look at the RevTree plugin on trac-hacks, but its designed for use with some custom properties
[10:41:42] <coderanger_> not sure how general it is
[10:41:47] <myouko> oh, ok
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[10:57:45] <milk-it> aff
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[11:00:49] * asmodai bombards coderanger with biology reports
[11:01:05] <milk-it> using tracd, my notification system works, but using apache+mod_python not works
[11:02:53] <milk-it> somebody know why?
[11:02:58] <milk-it> knows*
[11:04:34] <boorad> milk-it: the apache user have access to the mail server?
[11:05:38] <milk-it> boorad, ohhhhhhh, I didn't about this
[11:05:44] <milk-it> boorad, thanks! :D
[11:06:01] <boorad> I'm not sure myself, just a suggestion
[11:06:10] <milk-it> boorad, TRAC use sendmail?
[11:06:17] <boorad> I'm not sure.
[11:06:32] <boorad> it may just use whatever you have available, or potentially something embedded in its code.
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[11:24:41] <pacopablo> no, trac uses the python smtplib modules
[11:24:44] <pacopablo> er, module
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[11:26:23] <MikeConigliaro_> guys, im having a weird problem. when i try to preview/submit a new ticket, it just takes me back to the wiki page
[11:26:31] * MikeConigliaro_ is now known as MikeConigliaro
[11:26:44] <coderanger_> do you have TICKET_VIEW?
[11:27:05] <MikeConigliaro> yeah, i have all the permissions
[11:27:10] <coderanger_> what version?
[11:27:17] <MikeConigliaro> 0.8.4
[11:27:55] <MikeConigliaro> the form is actually submitting back to the wiki page
[11:28:29] <MikeConigliaro> <form id="newticket" action="/portal#preview" method="post">
[11:28:46] <coderanger_> debian?
[11:28:49] <MikeConigliaro> yeah
[11:28:59] <coderanger_> submit a bug report to htme
[11:29:12] <coderanger_> they have been backporting stuff from 0.9 and 0.10 into 0.8
[