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March 11, 2007

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[01:19:40] <columbo> whos lindsay lohan?
[01:19:51] <columbo> jk
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[01:32:42] <Askar> Can I get support for listen music player here?
[01:33:20] <columbo> i don't think so - this is for trac the bug tracking software
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[03:44:23] <cboos> good morning
[03:54:02] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #638 (enhancement closed): Darcs support patch available <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/638#comment:26> || Ticket #2281 (enhancement closed): Pre-filling ticket information based on current page <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/2281#comment:4>
[04:01:23] <mitsuhiko> hoi cboos
[04:01:54] <cboos> salut armin ;-)
[04:03:12] <mitsuhiko> cboos: have you created the LRU Cache object for genshi?
[04:03:24] <cboos> no, that's cmlenz
[04:04:17] <mitsuhiko> ah
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[04:06:48] <mitsuhiko> cboos: how many items do you think are normally in a LRU cache for genshi? between 50 and 200?
[04:07:47] <mitsuhiko> cboos: because i had a similar problem today and created a complete different implementation. and the benchmark results are very, very interesting :)
[04:07:50] <mitsuhiko> cboos: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/1170/
[04:08:09] <mitsuhiko> (snippet -> lru cache from activestate cookbook)
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[04:09:06] <cboos> well, I never looked closely at that part of genshi, I just assume that it does the right thing...
[04:09:25] <cboos> mitsuhiko: what are the numbers, the smaller the better?
[04:09:35] <mitsuhiko> ChanServ: the smaller the faster
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[04:09:59] <mitsuhiko> cboos: well. it was just interesting not because i would like the best performance but it shows where python is fucking slow :)
[04:10:15] <mitsuhiko> cboos: the genshi impl is the best, but it has too many method calls
[04:12:32] <cboos> well, maybe you could inline some of those, making the code a bit more verbose/redundant but faster.. I don't know
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[04:13:43] <mitsuhiko> cboos: well. it doesn't matter. fetching the template from the cache is just a small piece of the loading and rendering process. nobody would notice a better impl there
[04:14:00] <mitsuhiko> in fact i now wonder myself why i spent one hour for that stupid thing :D
[04:14:10] <cboos> but genshi has some need for speed
[04:14:31] <cboos> so, in general, if you can come up with some optimizations, all the better
[04:14:44] <mitsuhiko> cboos: well. genshi needs code generation
[04:15:08] <mitsuhiko> but i don't think you can make it much faster
[04:15:22] <cboos> not only that... the speedup branhces took this path, for no big benefits so far
[04:15:26] <mitsuhiko> genshi has a quite complex architecture
[04:15:41] <cboos> there's much room for enhancement in the py:match stuff
[04:16:00] <cboos> special casing a few common idioms
[04:16:07] <mitsuhiko> cboos: does genshi uses a context or locals?
[04:16:13] <mitsuhiko> in jinja i have a stacked context
[04:16:17] <cboos> same
[04:16:22] <mitsuhiko> most of the time the context is the problem
[04:16:27] <mitsuhiko> resolving, pushing, updating etc
[04:16:42] <cboos> ah, hm, no, I guess not for genshi
[04:16:57] <cboos> that code is pretty straightforward AFAIR
[04:16:57] <mitsuhiko> cboos: do you use locals too?
[04:17:22] <cboos> no, I don't think so (hacking frame locals you mean?)
[04:17:36] <mitsuhiko> cboos: ah. yes. no code generation. so no locals
[04:17:56] <mitsuhiko> well. for fun i removed the context thing in jinja and used the python scoping rules and namespace
[04:17:56] <cboos> I can't speak for the codegen branches, haven't looked there in detail
[04:18:04] <mitsuhiko> performnace improvement of about 300%
[04:18:32] <cboos> but jinja is a "text" approach, right?
[04:18:47] <mitsuhiko> cboos: well. jinja is a "sandboxed" approach
[04:18:50] <mitsuhiko> which makes it quite slow
[04:19:13] <cboos> sandboxed?
[04:19:32] <mitsuhiko> cboos: well. all generated python code is wrapped so that nobody can screw things up or execute unsafe python code
[04:19:50] <mitsuhiko> i want to use it especially for static webpage generation on svn hooks when you cannot trust the submitter
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[04:20:34] <cboos> ah.. but I meant what about the approach for the template content itself? It's not supposed to be xml or anything, right?
[04:21:28] <mitsuhiko> cboos: no. the template is just python code in sections and everything else is text
[04:21:32] <mitsuhiko> so quite simple to process
[04:21:47] <cboos> haha, so if it's freetext based .. . . . . why not use Clearsilver? (which is damn fast)
[04:24:08] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: TracMercurial edited by anonymous <http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracMercurial> || Ticket #4843 (defect closed): attempted to create bug report in railonruby site - got oops internal error <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4843#comment:2>
[04:24:50] <mitsuhiko> cboos: because clearsilver sucks
[04:25:28] <mitsuhiko> i want template inheritance and be able to execute python code in templates :)
[04:25:31] <mitsuhiko> and a nice syntax
[04:25:41] <mitsuhiko> well. but we're offtopic
[04:25:48] <cboos> ok, those are arguments ;-)
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[06:54:56] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4930 (defect created): Ticket Unicode Text Attachments are not displayed correctly. <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4930>
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[07:27:03] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4931 (defect created): notification with SMTP through SSL is not supported (fix included) <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4931>
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[07:57:12] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4885 (defect closed): Possible memory leak (after update to 0.11dev-r4930) <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4885#comment:11>
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[09:08:53] <Serkan> hi
[09:09:04] <Serkan> can trac connect to remote svn repos?
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[11:58:19] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4869 (defect closed): SpamFilter does not show up in WebAdmin-Interface after straight forward installation. <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4869#comment:2>
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[12:28:31] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #1380 (defect reopened): trac-admin wiki dump doesn't include attachments <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/1380#comment:2>
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[13:30:47] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4930 (defect closed): Ticket Unicode Text Attachments are not displayed correctly. <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4930#comment:1> || TracUsers edited by anonymous <http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracUsers> || TracUsers edited by anonymous <http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracUsers>
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[14:49:10] <jhulten> Hey all.
[14:54:51] <mitsuhiko> cboos: PYCON VIDEO!!!
[14:55:04] <cboos> ahah
[14:55:08] <mitsuhiko> as promised. i'll be annoying till i get that video :D
[14:55:31] <cboos> ah, I thought you were telling me that the video was available ...
[14:55:45] <cboos> you know, I wasn't there ;-)
[14:56:02] <mitsuhiko> cboos: neither was me
[14:56:15] <mitsuhiko> cboos: i would have poked matt
[14:56:17] <mitsuhiko> but he's offline
[14:56:31] <cboos> so please go on crying alone in the dark :-)
[14:58:16] * cboos being mean
[15:01:44] <mitsuhiko> wish you a good night
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[17:24:00] <jhulten> Question: How do you mark a milestone complete?
[17:24:10] <jhulten> My google-foo is weak on this one.
[17:24:36] <jhulten> Never mind. Found it.
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[17:52:18] <tag> Ok
[17:52:28] <tag> so when I try to upload plugins via the web admin interface
[17:52:39] <tag> it just says "Internal Error" "No file uploaded"
[17:52:51] <tag> any idea as to why?
[17:53:19] <jhulten> Does your apache user have the needed write permissions on the filesystem?
[17:53:44] <tag> should
[17:53:57] <jhulten> And do you have any more info in the error_log? Either apache or trac?
[17:54:29] <tag> no unfortunately the trac log says 2007-03-11 19:47:22,299 Trac[main] WARNING: 500 Internal Error (No file uploaded)
[17:54:51] <tag> drwxr-xr-x 2 www-data www-data 4096 Mar 11 19:43 plugins
[17:54:52] <jhulten> Have you tried uping the log level to debug?
[17:55:52] <tag> still says the same thing
[17:57:00] <tag> no additional information provided
[17:57:21] <jhulten> Hmmm.
[17:57:37] <tag> wonder if it's my apache config
[17:58:07] <jhulten> No clue then.
[17:58:31] <jhulten> What does your config look like? (send link to pastie)
[18:02:06] <evil_twin> New news from t.e.o: Ticket #4932 (defect created): Automated Spam Bot Protecting <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4932>
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[18:03:13] <lisppaste5> tag pasted "Trac Config..." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/38036
[18:04:51] <lisppaste5> tag pasted "Apache config (1)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/38037
[18:05:04] <bryanl> is there a concept of a "parent" ticket in track?
[18:06:12] <lisppaste5> tag annotated #38037 with "site apache config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/38037#1
[18:07:39] <jhulten> bryanl: there is a master ticket plugin ou might look at.
[18:11:01] <bryanl> jhulten: thanks
[18:11:33] <jhulten> I dont see anything out of the ordinary, tag.
[18:11:41] <tag> jhulten: Me either
[18:12:24] <tag> I do see however this fucking error, and I might add that attaching files works fine
[18:12:51] <jhulten> That was just what I was going to ask.
[18:13:15] <tag> My trac environment seems kind of fucked.
[18:13:23] <tag> this isn't the only thing that's wrong
[18:14:10] <jhulten> tag: Setting property on non-local target
[18:14:14] <jhulten> DOH
[18:14:17] <tag> ?
[18:14:21] <jhulten> Lets try that again...
[18:14:26] <jhulten> http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/3168
[18:15:33] <tag> I'll try applying the patch
[18:20:27] <tag> ugh
[18:22:19] <tag> well now that works, sorta
[18:27:35] <tag> It's kind of annoying that people are starting to not build websites for 800x600 anymore
[18:40:21] <dweebgrrl> i want to use trac of issue tracking in a windows enviro.. is that possible?
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[19:14:40] <jhulten> dweebgrrl: You want to install trac on windows?
[19:14:52] <dweebgrrl> if i can
[19:15:31] <jhulten> http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracOnWindows
[19:16:08] <jhulten> Where is your subversion repos?
[19:16:34] <jhulten> For best integration, you want to run trac and your svn server on the same machine.
[19:18:01] <dweebgrrl> svn server?
[19:18:21] <dweebgrrl> subversion repos?
[19:18:28] <dweebgrrl> what are these things
[19:18:44] <jhulten> It is for version control of your software.
[19:19:03] <jhulten> You just need ticket tracking?
[19:19:57] <dweebgrrl> what else is there/
[19:19:59] <dweebgrrl> ?
[19:20:10] <dweebgrrl> I need ticket tracking and to be emailed
[19:20:25] <jhulten> Trac includes ticket tracking, a browser for your source code, and a wiki.
[19:21:01] <jhulten> It can do that and you can disable the other components to simplify the interface.
[19:21:03] <dweebgrrl> and it's Foss
[19:21:07] <dweebgrrl> ok
[19:21:20] <dweebgrrl> if only i could gain access to freenode from work
[19:21:33] <jhulten> You trying to do this for work?
[19:21:34] <dweebgrrl> it's terrible that i can get to dalnet and undernet but not freenode
[19:21:36] <dweebgrrl> yes
[19:21:58] <dweebgrrl> why?
[19:22:01] <dweebgrrl> is that bad?
[19:22:44] <jhulten> Not at all! I am using trac both for work and home. (I am the release engineer at work and am responsible for our source code management and ticket systems.
[19:22:52] <dweebgrrl> wow
[19:23:00] <dweebgrrl> release engineer? what is that/
[19:23:07] <dweebgrrl> what is that? I mean
[19:24:06] <jhulten> My job is to take work that the developers have written and the testers have tested and release it to our production environment.
[19:24:20] <dweebgrrl> wow that sounds great
[19:24:29] <jhulten> I do a lot of tools support and automation.
[19:24:34] <dweebgrrl> i'm a test lead myself
[19:24:48] <dweebgrrl> i need something to help me issue track
[19:25:03] <dweebgrrl> are you able to access freenode from work?
[19:26:01] <dweebgrrl> i want to be able to so if i have any questions can ask here
[19:26:01] <jhulten> Yup.
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[19:27:07] <jhulten> Start with the documentation on that wiki page.
[19:27:11] <dweebgrrl> do you think trac could be used for change management and configuration management too
[19:27:25] <dweebgrrl> you mean before i do the install
[19:27:31] <dweebgrrl> read the documentation, right
[19:27:35] <dweebgrrl> yeah that's a plan
[19:27:56] <dweebgrrl> we have a defect tracker but we don't have an issue tracker
[19:28:14] <dweebgrrl> all the issue trackers that are free online have a 5-user limit
[19:29:01] <jhulten> What do you see as the difference between a defect tracker and a issue tracker?
[19:29:17] <dweebgrrl> not a lot really
[19:29:31] <dweebgrrl> i notice that some folks use one for all
[19:29:42] <dweebgrrl> i want to use trac for the in-house test team
[19:30:00] <jhulten> What do the developers get the bugs they fix from?
[19:30:23] <jhulten> I am also a process engineer so I think about the big picture alot.
[19:30:47] <dweebgrrl> we currently use fogbugz
[19:31:06] <dweebgrrl> wow, process engineer release engineer
[19:31:08] <jhulten> We used that for a while and replaced it.
[19:31:19] <dweebgrrl> you replaced it with trac?
[19:31:22] <jhulten> I have years in IT and software development.
[19:31:33] <dweebgrrl> how many years?
[19:31:56] <jhulten> We are currently on CVS and CVStrac, but I am in the process of converting to subversion and trac.
[19:32:20] <dweebgrrl> CVStrac?
[19:32:24] <dweebgrrl> what is that?
[19:32:29] <jhulten> Professionally? 13 or so.
[19:32:34] <dweebgrrl> ok
[19:32:36] <dweebgrrl> long time
[19:32:56] <jhulten> Similar to trac, but not as good and works with CVS instead of subversion.
[19:33:13] <dweebgrrl> we definitely need something FOSS since the company doesn't want to pay for a lot of stuff
[19:33:20] <dweebgrrl> we have CVS too
[19:33:27] <dweebgrrl> but not using trac
[19:33:58] <jhulten> CVStrac is FOSS, but I wouldn't recommend it. It is klugey in my opinion.
[19:34:01] <dweebgrrl> we want to replace fogbugz with something that will allow developers to also do change management and configuration management
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[19:34:23] <dweebgrrl> ok second time I have seen that word
[19:34:31] <dweebgrrl> klugey
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[19:34:39] <dweebgrrl> heard it for the first time last week
[19:34:49] <jhulten> Trac will do all that in conjunction with Subversion. The migration from CVS to Subversion is pretty straight forward.
[19:35:01] <dweebgrrl> Subversion eh?
[19:35:04] <jhulten> Where do you work, if I may ask?
[19:35:18] <jhulten> Has some real bonuses over CVS.
[19:35:22] <dweebgrrl> you mean company or city?
[19:35:28] <dweebgrrl> I'm in Germantown MD
[19:35:34] <jhulten> Either, both.
[19:35:38] <jhulten> Seattle, WA
[19:35:58] <dweebgrrl> oh that's Microsoft land
[19:36:17] <dweebgrrl> I work for a defense software engineering company
[19:36:23] <jhulten> Not at my company. We are a Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP shop.
[19:36:33] <jhulten> Ah. Clearances and the like?
[19:36:34] <dweebgrrl> CMDC, we use Linux/Unix/Windows
[19:36:38] <dweebgrrl> MySQL
[19:36:50] <dweebgrrl> some ppl have clearances I don't
[19:37:32] <jhulten> Choctaw Manufacturing & Developement Corp?
[19:38:10] <jhulten> Can't be. They are in OK.
[19:38:10] <dweebgrrl> lol..
[19:38:22] <jhulten> But they do military contracts.
[19:38:56] <dweebgrrl> comtechmobiledatacorp
[19:39:17] <jhulten> Definitely not the Canadian Media Directors Council or Calgary Metal Detecting Club...
[19:39:18] <dweebgrrl> we test satellite equipment
[19:39:21] <jhulten> Ah.
[19:39:43] <jhulten> Google is a wonderous thing.
[19:39:49] <dweebgrrl> which company you're with?
[19:40:15] <jhulten> All Star Directories. We do online marketing and lead generation for univeristies.
[19:40:43] <jhulten> Who is in charge of your CVS environment?
[19:41:10] <dweebgrrl> not sure
[19:41:20] <dweebgrrl> as a tester i haven't had that much dealing with it
[19:41:28] <dweebgrrl> why is that?
[19:41:49] <dweebgrrl> if I tried to introduce them to something new like Subversion
[19:41:49] <jhulten> They would be a natural place to start talking about moving to a new platform.
[19:42:00] <dweebgrrl> I would have to test drive it
[19:42:09] <jhulten> How long have you been in the business?
[19:42:27] <dweebgrrl> about 5 years
[19:42:36] <dweebgrrl> altogether
[19:42:43] <dweebgrrl> comprehensively i guess
[19:43:00] <dweebgrrl> they are moving to using something called processMax and focal point
[19:43:13] <dweebgrrl> they are trying to get CMMI-2 level
[19:43:49] <jhulten> Ah. SEI. Got to love it.
[19:44:03] <dweebgrrl> do you all have it too?
[19:44:04] <jhulten> It appeals to the process engineer in me.
[19:44:16] <jhulten> Naw. We do not need that level of things.
[19:44:17] <dweebgrrl> processMax supposedly is replacing CVS
[19:44:22] * joobie has left #trac
[19:45:10] <dweebgrrl> I guess CVS is like a source code repository?
[19:45:32] <jhulten> yup.
[19:46:07] <dweebgrrl> yeah we have an onsite CMMI person who is training all the CMMI folks on processMax and focal point
[19:46:51] <jhulten> I would not do something like Trac under the radar if you are trying for SEI CMM level 2. The whole point is that everything be documented, centralized and controlled.
[19:47:05] <coderanger> Calling CVS a SCM is generous ;-)
[19:48:09] <dweebgrrl> well I don't plan to do it under the radar
[19:48:27] <dweebgrrl> I want to use a FOSS for issue-tracking not defect tracking or change management
[19:48:38] <dweebgrrl> what I plan to do is test drive it
[19:48:41] <jhulten> Now now... Lets not start THAT again... ;)
[19:48:49] <dweebgrrl> huh
[19:49:02] <dweebgrrl> well, we have fogbugz
[19:49:15] <dweebgrrl> and I don't know when they will change it
[19:49:22] <jhulten> coderanger: Calling CVS a SCM is generous ;-) <<--- Referencing this, dweebgrrl.
[19:49:34] <dweebgrrl> oh
[19:49:45] <jhulten> What is the difference between a issue and a defect?
[19:50:17] <jhulten> In your mind.
[19:50:36] <jhulten> What would go into fogbugz and what would go in trac?
[19:52:00] <dweebgrrl> in trac, would go the issues that testers are having with testing not with the software or equipment
[19:52:12] <dweebgrrl> i need the testers to communicate more
[19:52:29] <jhulten> What are they not doing?
[19:52:36] <dweebgrrl> and if we had something internal just for us, mabye they would
[19:52:41] <dweebgrrl> for example,
[19:53:08] <dweebgrrl> there are a few ppl at the company who know all the ins and outs
[19:53:28] <dweebgrrl> the ppl with the longevity know most alll there is to know
[19:53:31] <dweebgrrl> but the problem is
[19:53:41] <dweebgrrl> it's all in their heads it's not on paper
[19:54:01] <dweebgrrl> so it's hard to get these ppl because they are in demand at all times
[19:54:17] <dweebgrrl> yet
[19:54:40] <dweebgrrl> when a tester needs to utilize the info that they know for the testing process
[19:55:04] <dweebgrrl> these information-sources are not always available...
[19:55:53] <dweebgrrl> one tester did not reveal that he couldn't reach the source until the last minute
[19:56:01] <dweebgrrl> he was already past the deadline
[19:57:34] <dweebgrrl> if he had communicated this issue to management we could have handled it
[19:57:38] <dweebgrrl> the problem is...
[19:57:43] <dweebgrrl> the issue is on-going
[19:57:52] <dweebgrrl> there is always an issue
[19:58:42] <dweebgrrl> so my company doesn't want to pay for stuff
[19:58:57] <dweebgrrl> or they pick and choose what they want to pay for
[19:59:07] <dweebgrrl> so we're nearing the end of the FY
[19:59:19] <dweebgrrl> so less and less spending
[19:59:30] <dweebgrrl> FY ends in 3 months I think
[19:59:31] <coderanger> The solution to those kind of people involves the word "pink" and "slip" :P
[20:00:28] <dweebgrrl> where did jhulten go?
[20:01:32] <dweebgrrl> well, this company doesn't pinkslip over such things
[20:04:37] <evil_twin>