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<evil_twin> |
New news from t.e.o: Ticket #7428 (Help/Guide for default installation has many broken links) created <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/7428> |
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<asmodai> |
coderanger: Hey, I gave you fair warning about that thread. :) |
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<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: Bom Dia! |
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<asmodai> |
s0undt3ch: bom dia. tudo bem? |
| [00:30:05] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: Tudo! |
| [00:30:56] |
<asmodai> |
Good |
| [00:31:28] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: well, besides not being able to create weakref's to genshi Stream's ;) |
| [00:32:59] |
<asmodai> |
Why would you want weakrefs? |
| [00:34:02] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: I'm trying to cache rendered template for an ajax help system of mine |
| [00:34:16] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: yet, I'd like to keep mem usage low |
| [00:35:24] |
<asmodai> |
I use such a system |
| [00:35:37] |
<asmodai> |
didn't you see my TemplatedResponse? |
| [00:36:03] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: ah, that class of yours, remember the link to it? |
| [00:37:03] |
<asmodai> |
moment, pasting current version |
| [00:37:24] |
<asmodai> |
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/79295/ |
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<asmodai> |
Uses Werkzeug's Response, but should be fairly easy to port. |
| [00:38:36] |
<s0undt3ch> |
asmodai: yeah, I need to port that to trac |
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<badtruffle> |
is there some way I can put a register link on my trac? |
| [01:45:52] |
<badtruffle> |
so users can create their own (unprivileged) accounts |
| [01:47:30] |
<asmodai> |
@acctmgr |
| [01:47:30] |
<evil_twin> |
asmodai: Error: "acctmgr" is not a valid command. |
| [01:47:36] |
<asmodai> |
@accountmanager |
| [01:47:37] |
<evil_twin> |
asmodai: "accountmanager" is http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/AccountManagerPlugin |
| [01:52:39] |
<badtruffle> |
how can I make an account an admin account so it can change settings on the web? |
| [01:52:50] |
<coderanger> |
@wiki TracPermissions |
| [01:52:51] |
<evil_twin> |
coderanger: http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracPermissions |
| [01:54:50] |
<badtruffle> |
thanks :) |
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<asmodai> |
coderanger: You're awake! |
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<coderanger> |
I am indeed |
| [02:08:37] |
<asmodai> |
coderanger: keeling over yet? |
| [02:08:37] |
<coderanger> |
Just got back from Matt's |
| [02:08:41] |
<asmodai> |
Good? |
| [02:08:43] |
<coderanger> |
hmm? |
| [02:08:50] |
<coderanger> |
asmodai: yeah, birthday party |
| [02:08:57] |
<asmodai> |
Ah nice :D |
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<hornswoggles> |
I'm installing trac on a slackware 12.1 distrobution. I can run trac using the stand alone server but am having difficulty with apache. The apache error log tells me there is ExtractionError: Can't extract file(s) to egg cache... The PYTHON_EGG_CACHE is currently set to my home directory. Does anyone have an idea where it should be set? |
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<coderanger> |
hornswoggles: Two things |
| [02:36:02] |
<coderanger> |
it should be set to /tmp |
| [02:36:13] |
<coderanger> |
and you probably need to install Genshi unzipped |
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<coderanger> |
remove the existing egg and run `easy_install -Z Genshi` |
| [02:38:56] |
<hornswoggles> |
I do have Genshi installed |
| [02:39:11] |
<coderanger> |
yes, you need to remove and reinstall it |
| [02:39:20] |
<hornswoggles> |
ok |
| [02:40:43] |
<asmodai> |
coderanger: is /tmp safe when you have a daily job cleaning tmp? |
| [02:40:52] |
<coderanger> |
asmodai: yes |
| [02:41:01] |
<coderanger> |
asmodai: it unzips again as needed |
| [02:41:04] |
<asmodai> |
ah nice |
| [02:41:16] |
<coderanger> |
the cache is all demand-driven |
| [02:41:34] |
<asmodai> |
velly nice |
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<coderanger> |
Do not use PMs unless you have a reason to |
| [02:52:21] |
<haggis> |
Hi! How can I tell which one of these to _fcgi.py Trac is using: http://utilitybase.com/paste/7299 ? |
| [02:52:39] |
<hornswoggles> |
Sorry didn't want to paste it to everyone |
| [02:52:50] |
<coderanger> |
Pastebin ... |
| [02:53:04] |
<coderanger> |
haggis: Check that they aren't the same file. might just be links |
| [02:53:23] |
<haggis> |
coderanger: yes, just occured to me :) |
| [02:53:31] |
<coderanger> |
the python-support is one of those weird bits of debian insanity |
| [02:53:45] |
<coderanger> |
for some reason debian really dislikes installing python packages normally |
| [02:54:15] |
<hornswoggles> |
http://pastebin.com/d4701fe0a |
| [02:54:57] |
<coderanger> |
hornswoggles: You removed the Genshi egg and reinstalled with the -Z flag? |
| [02:55:20] |
<coderanger> |
And you changed the egg cache folder to /tmp and then restarted the server? |
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<hornswoggles> |
ok had to restart apache. Good news is no more internal server error. But recieving a new error |
| [03:07:05] |
<hornswoggles> |
http://pastebin.com/m52549fc0 |
| [03:08:00] |
<hornswoggles> |
root has read and write permissions and owns the file. |
| [03:13:26] |
<coderanger> |
hornswoggles: I doubt you actually run apache as root |
| [03:13:41] |
<coderanger> |
you probably just started it as root, so that is the username picked up |
| [03:14:07] |
<coderanger> |
www-data, apache, and httpd are common usernames for it |
| [03:14:10] |
<coderanger> |
check your config though |
| [03:15:06] |
<hornswoggles> |
so then trac.db should be owned by apache? |
| [03:15:45] |
<coderanger> |
the db/ folder, but yes |
| [03:15:50] |
<coderanger> |
assuming that is the user you use |
| [03:17:20] |
<hornswoggles> |
cool getting closer ^^ |
| [03:17:57] |
<hornswoggles> |
ahh bingo. Thanks coderanger all is well |
| [03:19:52] |
<evil_twin> |
New news from t.e.o: Ticket #7428 (Help/Guide for default installation has many broken links) closed <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/7428#comment:1> |
| [03:24:05] |
<haggis> |
Hope you don't mind me interrupting again, but previously I had the issue of not getting past the "Available projects" page using Trac as FastCGI on Lighttpd. So I was recommended to apply this patch: http://pastebin.com/m529f7e1. Now I'm getting "Environment not found" instead. What's up? |
| [03:24:30] |
<coderanger> |
haggis: Remove that patch |
| [03:24:32] |
<coderanger> |
@tracdoc |
| [03:24:32] |
<evil_twin> |
coderanger: "tracdoc" is https://coderanger.net/~coderanger/tracdoc/install/index.html |
| [03:24:36] |
<coderanger> |
haggis: Read that |
| [03:25:23] |
<haggis> |
coderanger: on it |
| [03:32:32] |
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<haggis> |
coderanger: so I'll want to use the FastCGI script on https://coderanger.net/~coderanger/tracdoc/install/fastcgi.html#lighttpd ? |
| [03:35:10] |
<coderanger> |
Yes |
| [03:35:32] |
<haggis> |
The quirk is that I'm trying to do a multi-project setup, that is, using TRAC_ENV_PARENT_DIR |
| [03:35:45] |
<haggis> |
But that doesn't matter? |
| [03:35:57] |
<coderanger> |
its all the same |
| [03:36:04] |
<haggis> |
coderanger: Ok, thanks |
| [03:40:04] |
<haggis> |
Newbie as I am, where do I place the script and where do I plug it in? |
| [03:41:12] |
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<coderanger> |
haggis: You just put it in a file a point lighty at it |
| [03:50:00] |
<evil_twin> |
New news from t.e.o: Ticket #7427 (Current revision parameter) closed <http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/7427#comment:14> |
| [03:53:41] |
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<haggis> |
coderanger: Still the same "Environment not found". This is my lighttpd.conf: http://pastebin.com/dc52afd4 |
| [03:55:48] |
<coderanger> |
"TRAC_ENV_PARENT_DIR" => "/var/www/trac.domain.org$ |
| [03:55:54] |
<coderanger> |
Is that a typo? |
| [03:56:10] |
<haggis> |
ah, no it's nano cutting the line off |
| [03:56:14] |
<haggis> |
sorry |
| [03:57:45] |
<haggis> |
if you refresh your browser, i've corrected it :) |
| [03:59:23] |
<coderanger> |
Do you set TRAC_ENV anywhere in the lighty config |
| [03:59:35] |
<coderanger> |
or possibly is it defined in your local shell when you start lighty |
| [04:00:52] |
<haggis> |
nope |
| [04:02:13] |
<coderanger> |
"bin-path" => "/usr/share/trac/cgi-bin/trac-multiproject.fcgi, |
| [04:02:18] |
<coderanger> |
that is missing a close quote |
| [04:04:06] |
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<haggis> |
yet again, sorry, that got missed when I created the pastie. It's there in the real conf file :) |
| [04:05:54] |
<coderanger> |
and that file contains exactly what is listed in the docs? |
| [04:09:56] |
<haggis> |
yes |
| [04:11:31] |
<haggis> |
https://coderanger.net/~coderanger/tracdoc/install/fastcgi.html#lighttpd, second section of code under the Lighttpd section |
| [04:11:56] |
<coderanger> |
What path does it say when saying env not found |
| [04:12:12] |
<haggis> |
it just says "Environment not found" |
| [04:12:18] |
<haggis> |
nothing else |
| [04:12:30] |
<haggis> |
for all projects |
| [04:12:46] |
<haggis> |
I can't get to the available projects page either |
| [04:13:24] |
<coderanger> |
Can you set it to TRAC_ENV => /path/to/a/single/env and see if it is happy |
| [04:13:47] |
<haggis> |
removing PARENT_DIR? |
| [04:14:07] |
<coderanger> |
and change the path to point at a specific env |
| [04:18:27] |
<haggis> |
I get to the Trac index without CSS, but it says "404 Not Found (No handler matched request to %s)" |
| [04:19:18] |
<coderanger> |
hmm? |
| [04:20:07] |
<coderanger> |
haggis: oh, maybe this isn't helping |
| [04:20:12] |
<coderanger> |
alias.url = ("/" => "/usr/share/trac/htdocs/") |
| [04:20:15] |
<coderanger> |
comment that out |
| [04:22:33] |
<haggis> |
no change |
| [04:24:02] |
<coderanger> |
haggis: Is that the entire config? |
| [04:24:37] |
<haggis> |
nope there is more. but that's all regarding fastcgi.server for trac |
| [04:25:03] |
<coderanger> |
Yeah, see not including the entire config makes it hard to know if something else is wrong ... |
| [04:25:16] |
<haggis> |
yes, figures :) |
| [04:26:23] |
<haggis> |
one moment |
| [04:33:52] |
<haggis> |
http://pastebin.com/d1574f1ff |
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<coderanger> |
haggis: The rewrite at the end there looks suspicious |
| [04:38:53] |
<haggis> |
ah yes, i think that's it. it's only supposed to be specific to certain vhosts, not global like it is now |
| [04:39:17] |
<coderanger> |
comment it out and see if Trac becomes happy |
| [04:41:58] |
<haggis> |
now it works |
| [04:42:03] |
<haggis> |
thank you so much |
| [04:42:45] |
<haggis> |
i'll just go stand in the corner for a while now :) |
| [04:46:28] |
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<asmodai> |
jesus |
| [04:53:26] |
<asmodai> |
Id coming with a new Wolfenstein |
| [04:53:44] |
<asmodai> |
New IP is difficult... |
| [04:54:21] |
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<asmodai> |
although, might be Raven doing it... |
| [05:01:33] |
<asmodai> |
coderanger: lol, people complaining about nausea with Id and Valve engines, but Unreal engine no problem |
| [05:01:37] |
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<AboSamoor> |
i installed vstrac and xmlrpc, how can i can be sure that they are working ? i tried to connect vstrac to my trac server without any use |
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<Kamaze> |
sup |
| [05:36:27] |
<Kamaze> |
Hello, i have running Trac 0.11 with apache 2.2 MPM Worker and mod_wsgi, with 2 threads and 25 childs |
| [05:36:54] |
<Kamaze> |
I noticed, that since i run trac, the CPU usage is somewhat higher (compared to php apps) |
| [05:37:23] |
<Kamaze> |
well, am i doing it wrong? |
| [05:37:40] |
<Kamaze> |
Or could it be due the SQLite usage instead of a "real" db? |
| [05:38:14] |
<coderanger> |
Kamaze: Trac is more complex than most PHP apps, so that is to be expected |
| [05:39:10] |
<Kamaze> |
More complex that drupal/phpbb3/meadiawiki together? :) |
| [05:39:15] |
<Kamaze> |
-that +than |
| [05:39:40] |
<coderanger> |
Yes, PHP is a very simple language |
| [05:40:10] |
<coderanger> |
Do you have the genshi speedup module compiled? |
| [05:40:26] |
<Kamaze> |
Before trac, avarage CPU usage was ~00.6 |
| [05:40:39] |
<Kamaze> |
Since trac, ~01,4% |
| [05:41:08] |
<coderanger> |
0.8% of a CPU isn't exactly much .... |
| [05:41:48] |
<coderanger> |
it what plugins do you have installed, and how much traffic is Trac serving |
| [05:42:20] |
<coderanger> |
really unless you are hitting CPU limiting issues, there is much reason to go and tune everything |
| [05:42:25] |
<coderanger> |
just a waste of time |
| [05:43:17] |
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<Kamaze> |
mhm, only the account manager plugin + phpbb3 auth |
| [05:53:33] |
<Proteus> |
G'morning, I'm interested in setting up trac to manage a small game development team and I was wondering: how well does trac meshe with alternatives to SVN such as Darcs? |
| [05:54:30] |
<coderanger> |
People still use darcs? |
| [05:54:42] |
<coderanger> |
I thought everyone understood it was a joke by now |
| [05:54:50] |
<Proteus> |
hahaha |
| [05:54:59] |
<Proteus> |
well, I'm new to all this |
| [05:55:37] |
<Proteus> |
I've used subversion before but doing some research the past few days I became intrigued with the simplicity of darcs |
| [05:55:40] |
<coderanger> |
I can say from personal experience that you do not want a dSCM for game development |
| [05:56:01] |
<coderanger> |
games as a system are too highly linked |
| [05:56:24] |
<coderanger> |
even small API changes will often have huge repercussions |
| [05:56:33] |
<coderanger> |
so you don't want things to drift out of sync |
| [05:56:37] |
<Proteus> |
so is the linux kernel, but git seems to work pretty well |
| [05:56:58] |
<coderanger> |
the linux kernel is the opposite of highly linked |
| [05:57:13] |
<coderanger> |
it relies heavily on unchanging APIs |
| [05:57:24] |
<Proteus> |
ah, I misunderstood you |
| [05:57:33] |
<coderanger> |
If you think you can accomplish that in the initial stages of a game, go for it |
| [06:00:50] |
<Proteus> |
well, we're building on top of a bunch of well established projects like Ogre3d, Physics Abstraction Layer (and probably Bullet or ODE underneath), OpenAL, etc. all of which have pretty stable APIs. As for our AI, logic, shader code and whatnot I don't know how well we'll be able to design the architecture before we start coding... |
| [06:01:06] |
<coderanger> |
Exactly |
| [06:01:10] |
<Proteus> |
my interest in darcs was more its simplicity than its distributed nature |
| [06:01:24] |
<coderanger> |
how is it simpler than svn? |
| [06:03:18] |
<Proteus> |
http://wiki.darcs.net/DarcsWiki/WorkFlowsVsSubversion |
| [06:04:13] |
<coderanger> |
basically all they are saying is that svn lacks cherry picking |
| [06:04:24] |
<coderanger> |
svn is only complex if you work around that limitiation |
| [06:04:25] |
<coderanger> |
don't |
| [06:04:36] |
<coderanger> |
fixing two things in a single commit is fine |
| [06:05:18] |
<coderanger> |
It is worth noting that darcs is possibly the slowest excuse for a SCM I have ever seen |
| [06:05:32] |
<coderanger> |
haskell is simply not well suited for real programming tasks |
| [06:06:28] |
<Proteus> |
they sacrifice performance for purity every time |
| [06:06:41] |
<coderanger> |
They sacrifice sanity for purity |
| [06:06:49] |
<Proteus> |
haha, yeah that too |
| [06:06:54] |
<coderanger> |
most task in "real" software are simply not functional |
| [06:07:02] |
<coderanger> |
just a reality |
| [06:07:06] |
<Proteus> |
I disagree. |
| [06:07:13] |
<Proteus> |
Ocaml is a fantastic language |
| [06:07:24] |
<coderanger> |
File IO isn't functional and never will be |
| [06:07:49] |
<Proteus> |
ocaml can be linked with c |
| [06:07:58] |
<Proteus> |
plus, it does file IO fine |
| [06:08:04] |
<coderanger> |
then you are using non-functional code again |
| [06:08:06] |
<coderanger> |
QED |
| [06:09:20] |
<coderanger> |
file IO is not a functional process, it is a stateful, procedural mechanism |
| [06:09:28] |
<coderanger> |
You can't change the underlying API |
| [06:10:00] |
<Proteus> |
sure, but most of my code isn't doing file IO |
| [06:10:21] |
<coderanger> |
Unless you do no file IO, you can't be purely functional |
| [06:10:40] |
<coderanger> |
If you aren't purely functional, the ML-ish langs break down |
| [06:10:59] |
<Proteus> |
not ocaml, since it isn't pure |
| [06:13:31] |
<coderanger> |
ML was designed as a functional language, Caml inherited that legacy, and so did ocaml |
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| [06:15:22] |
<coderanger> |
it is like saying Lisp is procedural because the progn form exists |
| [06:16:13] |
<Proteus> |
yes, and you can write functional code just fine with ocaml _or_ if you want/need to you can write in an imperative style and get within a couple percentage points of the performance of optimized c |
| [06:17:05] |
<coderanger> |
and you code will generally start to look ugly in most cases. libraries get harder to use, etc etc |
| [06:17:22] |
<coderanger> |
just like trying to write non OO code in Java or Ruby |
| [06:18:01] |
<coderanger> |
any time someone makes a language with a single core model, and then bolts on another model it turns to garbage |
| [06:18:08] |
<coderanger> |
I can quote many examples |
| [06:18:19] |
<Proteus> |
it doesn't look nearly as ugly as C plus it has a good garbage collection system |
| [06:18:21] |
<coderanger> |
the secondary models _work_ but that doesn't make them a good idea |
| [06:18:23] |
<Proteus> |
it's not bolted on |
| [06:18:35] |
<Proteus> |
it's designed to be a multi-paradigm language |
| [06:19:07] |
<coderanger> |
It is a multi-paradigm dialect of a functional language |
| [06:19:16] |
<asmodai> |
Multi-paradigm? Now I am sceptical. |
| [06:19:40] |
<coderanger> |
asmodai: most languages are multi-paradigm at this point |
| [06:20:00] |
<Proteus> |
and yeah, it looks ugly when you're trying to write high-performance numerical code, but it's a hell of a lot easier to deal with than C or Fortran |
| [06:21:05] |
<coderanger> |
There are very few languages that have not added or removed programming models to their design |
| [06:21:33] |
<coderanger> |
C, Python, ObjC, D, prolog |
| [06:21:54] |
<Proteus> |
sure |
| [06:22:11] |
<coderanger> |
forth if you disqualify the stupid object forth thing |
| [06:22:24] |
<Proteus> |
and for ocaml it's the object system |
| [06:22:40] |
<Proteus> |
there's an object oriented fourth dialect? jesus |
| [06:22:53] |
<Proteus> |
forth |
| [06:23:03] |
<coderanger> |
Proteus: It was pretty horrible last I saw |
| [06:23:26] |
<coderanger> |
Proteus: perhaps it is fair to say I have more of a problem with caml than ocaml itself :P |
| [06:23:33] |
<coderanger> |
but I still think they are silly to use |
| [06:24:03] |
<coderanger> |
just not suited for the reality of how ugly software has to be, they don't handle it well |
| [06:24:18] |
<dennis-> |
win 21 |
| [06:24:20] |
<dennis-> |
oops |
| [06:27:04] |
<Proteus> |
out of curiosity, have you tried any other alternatives to svn? |
| [06:27:33] |
<coderanger> |
Proteus: git, bzr, darcs, played with hg but not used it on a project |
| [06:28:57] |
<Proteus> |
do you recommend any of those over svn? |
| [06:29:09] |
<coderanger> |
i tried to setup svk once but got too annoyed half-way through |
| [06:29:36] |
<coderanger> |
bzr is good on 99% of the usability, but it doesn't handle large numbers of branches that well |
| [06:29:51] |
<coderanger> |
it follows the svn idea of one folder == one branch |
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<coderanger> |
git still has a good number of UI and usability warts, but is a very very nice system internally |
| [06:34:08] |
<coderanger> |
oh, and bzr uses a weird version number scheme for files |
| [06:34:12] |
<coderanger> |
never liked it |
| [06:34:37] |
<coderanger> |
granted git/hg's hashes are ugly, but at least I understand what they mean |
| [06:36:31] |
<Proteus> |
git seemed like something I'd definitely want to try out someday but I wasn't sure if the complexity was something we were willing to deal with on top of everything else. |
| [06:36:36] |
<Proteus> |
as I read about it, trac seems pretty feature rich and well tested. Are there any competing systems you think are worth considering before we settle on how we're going to organize our team? |
| [06:38:04] |
<coderanger> |
bugzilla+mediawiki is the 900 lb gorilla |
| [06:38:15] |
<coderanger> |
ditto jira+confluence (not free) |
| [06:38:41] |
<coderanger> |
Look at redmine, a ruby clone of Trac that adds some features (and removes others) |
| [06:38:52] |
<coderanger> |
if JTrac is still around you can look at that |
| [06:39:11] |
<coderanger> |
there is some hosted tool people have been talking about |
| [06:39:14] |
<coderanger> |
Lighthouse maybe |
| [06:42:13] |
<Proteus> |
a 900lb gorilla probably isn't going to be the sort of flexible, lightweight, low learning curve tool a small team needs. 'not free' = no go (we're poor students). redmine - would you consider what they've done an improvement on trac? |
| [06:43:01] |
<coderanger> |
basically redmine took trac, copied it, and implemented a few of the most requested features |
| [06:43:27] |
<coderanger> |
but they missed the reason that we haven't done them yet is generally they are very hard to design correctly |
| [06:43:42] |
<coderanger> |
they also didn't seem to understand how valuable the plugin system is |
| [06:44:15] |
<coderanger> |
so in the short term it may provide benefits, but it won't survive in the long run. at least not in the same way |
| [06:44:40] |
<coderanger> |
plugin ecosystems are a very powerful way to do large software |
| [06:44:44] |
<coderanger> |
the only way IMO |
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<Proteus> |
taking a working system and writing it in a favorite language just because you can..... I'm wary of that. I don't want surprises. |
| [06:46:23] |
<Proteus> |
And I agree 100% about plugins |
| [06:46:28] |
<coderanger> |
they did add some things people want, like "multi-project support", but they did so in very limiting ways |
| [06:46:54] |
<coderanger> |
there is only one way to deal with multiple projects, and if your team disagrees with their process you are SoL |
| [06:47:22] |
<Proteus> |
are you the lead developer for trac? |
| [06:47:27] |
<coderanger> |
No |
| [06:47:51] |
<coderanger> |
I am primarily a plugin hacker: http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/coderanger |
| [06:48:07] |
<coderanger> |
I work on Trac code mostly in relation to fixing/adding plugin APIs |
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coderanger should update his bio |
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<Proteus> |
cool |
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asmodai is a fringe hacker |
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<asmodai> |
not even remotely as cool as coderanger |
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<coderanger> |
asmodai: hey, the translation stuff is no small task :P |
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<asmodai> |
learnt a lot about Greek yesterday when talking to a native. |
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<asmodai> |
Nice to see I was not that far off :D |
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<asmodai> |
coderanger: so it's gonna be 2K that will pimp your game |
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<lvillani> |
hi, I'm having problems installing trac with mod_fcgid, in particular the page output goes to /var/log/httpd/error_log (!) but the webserver replies with a 500 error |
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<lvillani> |
solved, it was a SELinux issue |
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